Downgrading 11 Counts As Responder

[pbleighton]

Playing a natural system, let's say you open most(or all) 12 counts and a some significant minority of 11 counts, how do you feel about downgrading bad 11 counts to non-invitational status?

 

Related question: how many 10 counts do you invite with (excluding those with known 8+ card fits)?

 

My experience lead me to never downgrade (playing a strong club with limited openings, or natural with lighter openings is a different matter, of course).

 

Peter

[mike777]

Hope this helps.

 

I invite with 12-13 support points in a suit contract.

I invite with 12-13 hcp in a nt contract. I invite with some good 11's.

I have learned to have my full invite values as partners will bid game on anything.

 

That means semiforcing nt has a huge range:

1s=1nt can be 13 hcp.

2/1 game force is 14. Yes 2/1 bids come up alot still since partners may open one on:

8hcp

ATxx...AT9xxx...void....xxx

or

9 hcp

x.xx.AJTxx...AT9xx

or

numerous 10 hcp hands and 6-4.

[awm]

I normally pass with 10. At MPs I will often pass a 1NT rebid with 11 and no five card suit, but at IMPs I would normally raise. A few points here:

 

(1) It helps to play the style where opener often raises on three-card support, especially if I hold 10 points and a five-card major. Game odds go down substantially when opener has only doubleton in my suit.

 

(2) It's true that occasionally you'll miss a decent game when you pass with 10 and partner has 14. But most of these 24 point games are pretty close to the threshold for an IMPs game, and partner will typically accept an invite on a good 13 as well, which is usually below the threshold for an IMPs game.

 

(3) You also have to consider all the hands where opener has 12 and inviting means you play 2NT (possibly failing) instead of 1NT.

 

I think one of the funniest hands I've ever played was in a bracket one KO against some members of our national junior team, when partner opened 1♠ and I responded a semi-forcing notrump with 13 hcp, only to have partner pass with 13 hcp and make exactly seven tricks in 1NT on 26 high! This was a moderate win (+290 comparing with 3NT two off at the other table) but it put our opponents on tilt the rest of the match which added up to an awful lot more imps than that.

[Fluffy]

After 1m opening

 

I pass 10 balanced but invite with every 11, unbalanced 10 depends.

 

 

after 1M opening

 

I make simple raise with 10, or 1NT + 2M with 10 also. I don't downgrade 11, but I do downgrade 12 to invite.

[Guest Jlall]

depends on your upgrading style, if my partner played a similar style to me I would invite with almost all 11s and some 10s.

[pclayton]

These days, here are my criteria:

 

Every single 14.

Open all 13's, unless 4333 and aceless.

Open all 12's, except - a 4333 I don't like or an aceless 4432.

 

Of the 11's I open:

 

Open any 5-4 without a rebid problem

Open any hand with 3 QT's, although I'm partial to AK-A, vs A-K-A.

Open a 4-4 with all points concentrated in 2 suits and there are no unsupported J's or Q's.

 

Of the 10's: Most 5-5's, as long as the short suits don't contain honors. I usually won'open a 5-4-4-0 unless I like it. I will also open a 5-4 with all points concentrated in 2 suits and no rebid problem.

 

Of the 9's: A 5-5 with all points in 2 suits, or many 5-6's (although I may pass and try to catch up).

 

________________

 

Inviting is more open ended. To me its a function of fit and cover cards, rather than points. I might treat a 6 count as a limit raise and an 11 count as a single raise.

[inquiry]

Invite with fit, down-grade on misfit.

[kenrexford]

If we are talking notrump invites, which I am assuming, then my style is ireelevant unless you share that style, but, here it is:

 

1NT shows "15-17." With 14, I'll open 1NT with six controls, or with five controls and no real good excuse to not open 1NT.

 

Accordingly, 1x...1NT shows something less.

 

If I have, as responder, 11 HCP's, I'll invite if I want to play 3NT opposite 13+. With five controls, I'm good enough. With four controls, I need an excuse to not invite. With three controls, I need a really good excuse to invite. With two or fewer controls, I'll downgrade.

[mike777]

depends on your upgrading style, if my partner played a similar style to me I would invite with almost all 11s and some 10s.

now I know his responder style. ;)

Still not sure about his opener style.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

playing a natural system try to avoid a 2NT

response (2NT = bal. 10-12), a forcing NT

helps after 1M opener, after 1m try to bite

your time, most of the time, partners bid

will tell you if your hand improved or not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pbleighton]

If we are talking notrump invites, which I am assuming, then my style is ireelevant unless you share that style, but, here it is:

 

1NT shows "15-17." With 14, I'll open 1NT with six controls, or with five controls and no real good excuse to not open 1NT.

 

Accordingly, 1x...1NT shows something less.

 

If I have, as responder, 11 HCP's, I'll invite if I want to play 3NT opposite 13+. With five controls, I'm good enough. With four controls, I need an excuse to not invite. With three controls, I need a really good excuse to invite. With two or fewer controls, I'll downgrade.

 

Sorry, Ken, I should have specified that the opener hasn't rebid 1NT in a strong NT system.

 

Peter