Forcing Pass ?

[ralph23]

NS are vul, EW are nonvul

West is dealer

 

2♠ (weak) by West

North overcalls 3♣

3♠ by East

South now bids 3NT

 

Part A. After two passes by West and North, East now bids 4♠.

THen, South passes.

 

1. Is South's pass forcing ?

 

West also passes and now, North doubles.

 

2. What should South have to pull North's double? What kind of hand would South have in this instance ?

 

 

Part B. Defying partnership logic, :) after South's 3NT bid, West immediately bids 4♠.

 

3. North passes as does East. Is North's pass forcing ?

 

4. North doubles the 4♠ bid of West. What should South have to pull the double ?

[helene_t]

2♠-3♣-p-3N

p-p-4♠-p*

p-x-p-?

 

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either

1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on

2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

 

2♠-3♣-p-3N

4♠-x*-p-?

Pass would have been forcing. This is a 100% penalty double. South cannot pull it (unless maybe if his 3N was a misclick, or if one of the opps shows him his cards).

[jtfanclub]

Ah, but the actual auction was:

 

2♠-3♣-3♠-3NT

P---P---4♠-Pass

 

which I think is a tougher call.

[pclayton]

NS are vul, EW are nonvul

West is dealer

 

2♠ (weak) by West

North overcalls 3♣

3♠ by East

South now bids 3NT

 

Part A. After two passes by West and North, East now bids 4♠.

THen, South passes.

 

1. Is South's pass forcing ?

 

West also passes and now, North doubles.

 

2. What should South have to pull North's double? What kind of hand would South have in this instance ?

 

 

Part B. Defying partnership logic, :) after South's 3NT bid, West immediately bids 4♠.

 

3. North passes as does East. Is North's pass forcing ?

 

4. North doubles the 4♠ bid of West. What should South have to pull the double ?

1. Not to me. I've bid 3N on a club fit and a single spade stop and nothing else. Why should we be forced to double 4♠ or bid 5♣?

 

2. A heckuva lot of shape that makes defending 4♠ unappealing and playing 5♣ attractive. Of course if North thinks South pass is forcing, then this becomes convuluted, since North might be doubling on a minimum hand with bad ODR, whereas if he didn't read South's pass as forcing, North would just pass.

 

3. No, but its closer to being a FP, since the preempter is raising himself, and ownership of the deal if more likely NS's. North might have overcalled on a minimum hand with a 7th club, so ownership isn't guaranteed.

 

4. I think the same criteria as #2 applies.

[pclayton]

2♠-3♣-p-3N

p-p-4♠-p*

p-x-p-?

 

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either

1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on

2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

 

2♠-3♣-p-3N

4♠-x*-p-?

Pass would have been forcing. This is a 100% penalty double. South cannot pull it (unless maybe if his 3N was a misclick, or if one of the opps shows him his cards).

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either

1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on

2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

 

#2 is impossible. Both North and South have settled on 3N. How can either be slammish, unless they rechecked and found an Ace? :)

 

As a result, #1 is illogical. Here, double just means "I can beat 4♠, but if you have something special, try 5♣". Pass just means, "I can't bid 5♣ and I'm not good enough to hit 4♠. If you want to try either (including 4N), go ahead".

[P_Marlowe]

A

#1 yes, ... I can understand, if you said no,

but it simplifies life

#2 There is no such hand, pass and pull

would show additional strength

 

B

#3 Yes, there ae hands out there, which justify

West bidding, they are rare, but they exist

#4 At most one stopper, Ax comes to mind

 

With kind regards

Marlowe