Very basic bidding question

[Quantumcat]

You have 4 cards in a major and 4/5 cards in a minor. Your partner opens.

 

I am very sure I remember someone telling me that if you have a major you say it first and forget the minor. But also remember someone telling me to always bid up the line. And someone else saying bid longest suit first. Which do you follow? I suppose your choices depend on your strength. If you have a longer minor than a major, (say spades) and partner opens a heart, how strong do you need to be to say 2 of minor followed by 2 spades? With hearts (6 if necessary), 2 of minor followed by 2/3 ♥ (pard opens spade)? If you have 4-4 M/m and pard opens 1♣, are there any times you will forget the diamonds and say the major first? What about when you are 5-5 (and pard if minimum will always support a major with 3 cards) or 5-4 (M>m). What should you do with a 6-4 or 6-5 (m>M) with differing strengths? Thanks for your help :-)

[Gerben42]

Very good question!

 

First the 2-over-1 example:

 

With a less than GF hand, for example

 

[hv=s=skqxxhxdxxxcaqxxx]133|100|[/hv]

 

you would respond 1♠ to a 1♦/♥-opening, with a GF hand like

 

[hv=s=skqxxhxdxxxcaqxxx]133|100|[/hv]

 

you would respond 2♣, because you can now bid ♠ when partner rebids his suit again: 1♥ - 2♣ - 2♥ - 2♠. This is a reverse by responder and is GF.

 

********

 

After opening 1♣ and the choice between ♦ and a major there are different styles and there is not much agreement about what is best, so here are a few pointers how I think most would play this.

 

With 4♦ and 4-card major, bid the 4-card major unless you have a GF hand (if you have a GF hand, bid up the line).

 

With 5♦ and a 4-card major, bid 1♦. This is where the Walsh style would bid differently, this would be alertable.

 

With 5♦ 5M, just as if you were opening the bidding, bid the higher suit first.

[helene_t]

In SA (5-card majors, 15-17 NT), you must bid the major first if you have less than game forcing strength. This is because if you bid you minor first and p has a balanced minimum he will rebid 2N:

1♦/♥-2♣

2N-?

and you now need GF strength to look for the 4-4-fit spades by bidding 3♠.

 

After a 1♣ opening, it may be different:

1♣-1♦

1NT-?

If opener's 1NT rebid does not deny a 4-card-major (Walsh), you now need reverse strength (GF, or close to GF, depending on agreement) to bid 2♥/♠. This means that without reverse strength, you should have bypassed diamonds and bid your major immediately. If opener's 1NT rebid denies a fourcard major (up the line), you can bid diamonds first if you want. You need a reason for doing that - merely having a 4-card diamonds is not enough since 1♣ tends to deny a 4-card diamond and besides it's not essential to find a 4-4-fit in diamonds if you don't have slam interest.

 

If you do have GF strength, the general advice is to bid the longest suit first, the cheaper of two 4-cards (i.e. the one than can be bid at the 1-level and otherwise the lower-ranking), and to bid the higher-ranking of two 5-cards.

[hotShot]

If you are strong enough to bid the longer suit first and the 2nd suit later, bid the longer suit first.

 

If your are not strong enough to bid your longer suit first, bid the 4card suit.

 

If you agreed Walsh or Canape style, alway bid the 4 card major first.

[Quantumcat]

What does walsh mean? And canapé (besides tasty treats)? I have seen that with a box on convention cards ... my partner and I missed 3 heart partscores in a row the other week: I was bidding up the line and he liked to rebid 1NT whenever possible, while I liked to bid the 4 cd spade suit. It's just style to agree on right?

 

So for my other questions, if you will probably have to reverse to show the major too, don't bid the minor first unless GF strength. But, you can if you probably won't have to reverse, like 1♣ 1♦ 1♠ 2♠. That makes sense! Thanks!

[helene_t]

What does walsh mean? And canapé (besides tasty treats)? I have seen that with a box on convention cards ... my partner and I missed 3 heart partscores in a row the other week: I was bidding up the line and he liked to rebid 1NT whenever possible, while I liked to bid the 4 cd spade suit. It's just style to agree on right?

 

So for my other questions, if you will probably have to reverse to show the major too, don't bid the minor first unless GF strength. But, you can if you probably won't have to reverse, like 1♣ 1♦ 1♠ 2♠. That makes sense! Thanks!

Walsh (in this context) means that opener must always rebid 1NT with a balanced hand:

1♣-1♦

1N*

does not deny a fourcard major. Hence,

1♣-1♦

1♥*

promises and unbalanced hand and responder can now take preference with 2♣ on a doubleton if he has a weak hand.

 

Canape is not particularly relevant here, at least not if the word "canape" is used in accordance with HIBD (Helene's Idiosyncratic Bridge Dictionary). It means that you bid your second-longest suit first rather than your longest suit first. Playing Walsh, responder bids 1♠ with four spades and five diamonds, but that doesn't make Walsh a Canape agreement since the principle is "major first", not "2nd-longest suit first".

[P_Marlowe]

What does walsh mean? And canapé (besides tasty treats)? I have seen that with a box on convention cards ... my partner and I missed 3 heart partscores in a row the other week: I was bidding up the line and he liked to rebid 1NT whenever possible, while I liked to bid the 4 cd spade suit. It's just style to agree on right?

 

So for my other questions, if you will probably have to reverse to show the major too, don't bid the minor first unless GF strength. But, you can if you probably won't have to reverse, like 1♣ 1♦ 1♠ 2♠. That makes sense! Thanks!

# 1 To answer your first question:

Yes it is a style issue

#2 If you start with Bridge: Forget Walsh, forget Canape.

#3 Regarding your last example, again s style

issue, espespecially, if you are 4-4.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

I would say that Walsh is easier to learn than up-the-line. Beginners should learn Walsh, not up-the-line. Just my personal view.

[Fluffy]

2m+ bid your major shows GF strenght, that is except if you are a passed hand, if you passed before it is a very good way to show your hand accuratelly (if you are 10-11 of course).

 

 

with 4-4 there are many books saying contradictory things, it doesn't matter much, even if you ahve no agreement.

 

with 5-4 obviously the major, I've seen beginners bidding the minor to show reverse strenght with this, but ONLY beginners.

 

With 5-5 it is exactly the same as 5-4. ONLY beginners bid the minor.

 

With 5-6, it is a style issue, if you live in america you better bid your minor or your partner's won't understand you (that's what I've learnt from years on this forums), but otherwise I believe bidding your major and bidding just like if you had a 5-5 works better (and its simpler)