Declare or defend?

[bid_em_up]

So you duck the diamond 9 with West playing the duece of diamonds. Thats two tricks lost. Now East continues the heart Q.

 

Now what?

 

Now i discard club on ♥Q, and i'll manage to ruff diamond in dummy

 

"P.S. I also think that covering the club at trick two gives you more problems than you give it credit for...."

 

No, i'll just play for now trumps from dummy and cash ♣J later going back to similar studied position.

So you discard a club on the heart Q. That is three tricks lost.

 

East now continues with another heart, promoting the setting trick (in trumps) for the defense. Care to try something else?

[Edmunte1]

East now continues with another heart, promoting the setting trick (in trumps) for the defense.

No, pls follow my advice for skorchev

[jtfanclub]

So you discard a club on the heart Q. That is three tricks lost.

 

East now continues with another heart, promoting the setting trick (in trumps) for the defense. Care to try something else?

No, I think this works.

 

Trick 1: Heart to Ace.

Trick 2: Club Jack around

Trick 3: Club Queen to King and Ace.

Trick 4: Spade to Ace

Trick 5: Diamond ducked

Trick 6: Queen of Hearts, ducked.

Trick 7: Small heart (not the J), ruffed high.

 

Let's assume that West discarded clubs on both.

 

[hv=n=s65htdakc7&w=s98hdqjtck&e=sthj954d8c&s=skq3hd654c]399|300|[/hv]

 

Looks like 1 high trump, then two diamonds, then ruff a small club, ruff a small diamond, and the high trump.

 

Let's assume West discarded at least one diamond.

 

Now two high trumps, then two diamonds, then ruff a small club, then cash the last diamond.

 

Looks like it makes either way.

[skorchev]

2.1) When you play the last heart West ruff, draw diamond and play diamond and East overruffs. Defence makes 1♦+♠A+2 ruffs;

2.2.1) I can't understand your idea, but after ducking of ♦ East play hearts and you will go down again;

2.2.2) The "known" theme is to go down.

 

I spend about 40-50 minutes analysing this board and I think there is no way to make 4♠ with excellent defence.

 

Please take a pack of cards and test it. I'm willing to take any bets on this one

I got some paper, it works better. I'm also up for any bets. :)

Now if it isn't problem please write some declarer play against the best defence where you make 4♠ for sure, because it's a mess now. And when you write it I'll come and try my best to improve the defence! :)

 

P.S. Maybe I'll come to Mamaia's festival, so one bet for a drink is ok! B)

[skorchev]

So you discard a club on the heart Q.  That is three tricks lost.

 

East now continues with another heart, promoting the setting trick (in trumps) for the defense.  Care to try something else?

No, I think this works.

 

Trick 1: Heart to Ace.

Trick 2: Club Jack around

Trick 3: Club Queen to King and Ace.

Trick 4: Spade to Ace

Trick 5: Diamond ducked

Trick 6: Queen of Hearts, ducked.

Trick 7: Small heart (not the J), ruffed high.

 

Let's assume that West discarded clubs on both.

 

[hv=n=s65htdakc7&w=s98hdqjtck&e=sthj954d8c&s=skq3hd654c]399|300|[/hv]

 

Looks like 1 high trump, then two diamonds, then ruff a small club, ruff a small diamond, and the high trump.

 

Let's assume West discarded at least one diamond.

 

Now two high trumps, then two diamonds, then ruff a small club, then cash the last diamond.

 

Looks like it makes either way.

After Trick 4 (Spade to Ace) why defenders play ♦? East plays ♥Q.

[jtfanclub]

double post, sorry.

[jtfanclub]

After Trick 4 (Spade to Ace) why defenders play ♦? East plays ♥Q.

I already illustrated Edmunte's solution when trick 5 is a high heart. I was illustrating his solution when it is a diamond, and LHO played low.

[mikeh]

This is a great problem ;)

 

Ok, Edmunte...

 

1. Win the ♥

2. ♣ Q...covered... assume we win in dummy

3. trump, won by the A

4. club back. We have to win, else LHO wins and gives a ruff

5. lead a ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club

6. trump to hand to remove East's 10

7 diamond up: LHO must duck else we establish by force

8. RHO is on lead with nothing but hearts and we have lost two tricks.

 

We hold x 1087 A x in dummy and KQx void xx x in hand with LHO holding 9 void QJ 109x

 

RHO leads a high heart.

 

We pitch a club, as does LHO

We ruff high next time and cash the ♦, ruff the club to get to our hand and ruff the ♦, but now we are in dummy with Jx of trump in our hand and LHO sitting behind us withthe 9... and we have to lead a ♥ from dummy...ooops

 

And it does us no good to ruff high at trick 8. We then cash a top diamond, reducing to a 4 card position, needing 3 tricks:

 

In dummy with x 108 void x opposite Kx void x x and LHO with 9 void Q 109.

If we exit a club, LHO plays a trump. If we exit a ♥, we have to ruff high and now ruff a diamond in dummy and the opps claim.

 

If we try ducking the ♣K at trick 2, they switch to diamonds. If we duck that, they play another club. We have to win in dummy in order to lead a trump. RHO wins and plays a high heart...whatever we do, I beleive we come down to the same end game with LHO's trump 9 scoring.

 

Ok, let's eliminate RHO's club exit:

 

1. ♥A

2. ♣Q covered

3. ♣J

4.♦: if LHO inserts the 10, we have to win

5. trump, won by RHO

6. ♦ back...LHO must duck, so we duck as well

7. ♥ We have to ruff high else LHO ruffs and leads a diamond

8. high trump

9. top diamond

 

 

but now we are in dummy, in a 4 card end game, needing 3 tricks with x 108 void x opposite Kx void x x. We can ruff a heart high and ruff a diamond, but we have to lose the last two tricks.

 

I may have missed something.... I love this hand because there are so many lines :o

[1eyedjack]

1. ♥A

2. ♣Q covered

3. ♣J

Misplayed at trick 3, I think. Yes you are down now. But not if you play a Spade up at trick 3 instead of the Club to Jack.

[1eyedjack]

This is a great problem ;)

 

Ok, Edmunte...

 

1. Win the ♥

2. ♣ Q...covered... assume we win in dummy

3. trump, won by the A

4. club back. We have to win, else LHO wins and gives a ruff

5. lead a ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club

6. trump to hand to remove East's 10

7 diamond up: LHO must duck else we establish by force

8. RHO is on lead with nothing but hearts and we have lost two tricks.

 

We hold x 1087 A x in dummy and KQx void xx x in hand with LHO holding 9 void QJ 109x

 

RHO leads a high heart.

 

We pitch a club, as does LHO

We ruff high next time and cash the ♦, ruff the club to get to our hand and ruff the ♦, but now we are in dummy with Jx of trump in our hand and LHO sitting behind us withthe 9... and we have to lead a ♥ from dummy...ooops

No you got there, Mikeh. You no longer have Jx of trumps in hand at the point you quote. Ruffing the club back to hand reduces you to singleton J. That is after trick 11. You just have J of trumps and D. Ruff the D at trick 12 in dummy and LHO has to underruff the Heart at trick 13.

[Edmunte1]

1. Win the ♥

2. ♣ Q...covered... assume we win in dummy

3. trump, won by the A

4. club back. We have to win, else LHO wins and gives a ruff

5. lead A ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club

6. trump to hand to remove East's 10

7 diamond up: LHO must duck else we establish by force

8. RHO is on lead with nothing but hearts and we have lost two tricks.

 

5. Cash one round of trumps (as i posted before when i wrote it first time in 2.1 i jumped over this step)

6. lead a ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club (i reverted steps 5-6)

7. Play trump to ♠Q, removing opps trumps

8. play diamond and let it ride to 9♦ (second trick lost)

9. East plays ♥ and you discard club. This is the ending:

[hv=n=sh1087dac7&w=shdj10c1093&e=shqj954dc&s=sk3hd65c5]399|300|[/hv]

Your 10th trick will be ♥10

[skorchev]

1. Win the ♥

2. ♣ Q...covered... assume we win in dummy

3. trump, won by the A

4. club back. We have to win, else LHO wins and gives a ruff

5. lead A ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club

6. trump to hand to remove East's 10

7 diamond up: LHO must duck else we establish by force

8. RHO is on lead with nothing but hearts and we have lost two tricks.

 

5. Cash one round of trumps (as i posted before when i wrote it first time in 2.1 i jumped over this step)

6. lead a ♦: if LHO puts in the 10, we have to win, else LHO cashes a club (i reverted steps 5-6)

7. Play trump to ♠Q, removing opps trumps

8. play diamond and let it ride to 9♦ (second trick lost)

9. East plays ♥ and you discard club. This is the ending:

[hv=n=sh1087dac7&w=shdj10c1093&e=shqj954dc&s=sk3hd65c5]399|300|[/hv]

Your 10th trick will be ♥10

6. Lead a ♦: LHO plays SMALL DIAMOND

 

Try to make it now ...

[Edmunte1]

The final will be:

 

[hv=n=s6h1087dakc7&w=s9hdqj10c1093&e=shqj9543d9c&s=skq3hd654c5]399|300|[/hv]

 

a) East returns Q♥, i'll discard club, ruff high next heart, and play ♦A-♦, club ruff , diamond ruff, West will underuff 13th trick

B) East returns ♦, cash ♦A-K, and play ♥ ruffed high, diamond ruff and ... club to West, and taking last 2 trump tricks

[bid_em_up]

1. Win the ♥

2. ♣ Q...covered... assume we win in dummy

3. trump, won by the A.

 

What do you do if East now plays the diamond 9?

 

If west plays small?

 

If west overtakes with the 10?

 

(You may have explained this already, I don't remember now...) :)

[Halo]

Some fantastic analysis on this post.

 

A while ago we discussed some Ottlik entry shifting - and here so far we have had a genuine backwash squeeze ending and some shape shifting to get cross ruffs.

 

I refuse to enter this into a computer (or even to spend 3 hours on it instead). Time for the poster to tell us the answer!

[Walddk]

OK then. I want to declare! Since this is a very complex hand as you have all spotted, I will divide it into two parts.

 

Part 1:

Win ♥A and advance ♣Q. Let's assume that West covers. You win the ace in dummy and lead a spade. East ducks (option 1) and from there you enter dummy twice in diamonds to ruff two hearts high. You cash ♣J and exit with a trump to East's ace.

 

There are four cards left. After East, perforce, cashes a heart (as you pitch a club), you have a low trump and two diamonds, West has a high trump and the high card in each minor, and dummy has a low trump and one of each minor. On the next heart West is squeezed.

 

If he ruffs high you throw a diamond from dummy and claim. If he throws a diamond you ruff in dummy and ruff a club. If he throws a club you ruff in dummy and cash dummy's club, which is now high, pitching your last diamond.

 

If West refuses to cover at trick 2, you continue with a club to dummy's ace and proceed as before. The same neat ending will materialise.

 

Now, let's assume that East rises with ♠A. Then it gets very complicated. West covers the club at trick 2 (option 1). On a trump lead East wins. Suppose he plays a second trump. (I will examine the other possibilities later). You lead a diamond.

 

1. If West splits, win, pull the last trump and cash the second club, then lead another diamond. West must duck, else your diamond spots win a trick on power. Duck in dummy to endplay East, who is now heart-tight. Pitch on his first high heart; then he must set up dummy's 10 on his next heart lead while you still have a high diamond as an entry to the good heart.

 

2. If West plays low, duck to East. Now you will be able to ruff your fourth diamond in dummy no matter how East defends. If he plays a high heart, pitch a club. (In most variations I will pitch the first time East plays a heart).

 

If East continues with a low heart, ruff high, unblock diamonds, ruff a club with your remaining low trump, ruff your fourth diamond, and you have a high trump at trick 13. If West ever discards a diamond, just draw his last trump and cash a diamond.

 

After East wins the diamond, if he plays anything but a heart, win, unblock diamonds, ruff a heart high, cash your club (if you haven't done so yet), ruff the fourth diamond and exit with the third club. West must win and put you back in hand to claim with good trumps.

 

Variation:

Suppose East wins the trump ace and plays a high heart immediately. Pitch a club. Now if East plays anything but another heart, transpose to (1) or (2) above. If East continues with a high heart, ruff high and draw trumps; the ♥10 is your 10th trick. If East continues with a low heart, pitch a diamond as West ruffs; later you can squeeze West in the minors for your 10th trick.

 

...

 

The last problem arises when West ducks the first club. I'll come back to that when I have recovered my breath. It's 1:10 am here :(

 

Roland

[Walddk]

OK, loose ends are bad, so let's add the last part:

 

Part 2:

Club ducked, second club to dummy, trump. East must win or we can use my initial line. East now plays a high heart. Ruff high, cash one high trump, cross to a diamond, ruff another heart high, cross to the other diamond, and lead the fourth heart pitching a club.

 

The position has now transposed to the initial 3-card ending.

 

As far as I can tell, edmunte1 got this right all along, but no one seemed to believe him. If you disagree with him (or me), I need to tell you that you also disagree with Bart Bramley! (Who dares?) :P

 

He also wants to declare and has been as specific as outlined in my last two posts.

 

Roland

[1eyedjack]

Part 1:

Win ♥A and advance ♣Q. Let's assume that West covers. You win the ace in dummy and lead a spade. East ducks (option 1) and from there you enter dummy twice in diamonds to ruff two hearts high. You cash ♣J and exit with a trump to East's ace.

You can also still make (after winning the first Spade) by exiting with a low Spade at trick 4, or by cashing the Club Jack at trick 4 and exiting with a low Spade at trick 5 (this is after East has ducked the first Spade).

[bid_em_up]

OK, loose ends are bad, so let's add the last part:

 

Part 2:

Club ducked, second club to dummy, trump. East must win or we can use my initial line. East now plays a high heart. Ruff high, cash one high trump, cross to a diamond, ruff another heart high, cross to the other diamond, and lead the fourth heart pitching a club.

 

The position has now transposed to the initial 3-card ending.

 

As far as I can tell, edmunte1 got this right all along, but no one seemed to believe him. If you disagree with him (or me), I need to tell you that you also disagree with Bart Bramley! (Who dares?)  :)

 

He also wants to declare and has been as specific as outlined in my last two posts.

 

Roland

As asked above,

 

What happens in part 2, when East wins the 1st trump, and plays the diamond 9 (not a 2nd heart)?

 

(And I am not disagreeing with anyone....just asking if it makes a difference)

[jtfanclub]

What happens in part 2, when East wins the 1st trump, and plays the diamond 9 (not a 2nd heart)?

If West plays low, you duck. If West plays high, you take it.

 

The case where you duck is listed in my second illustration.

[bid_em_up]

deleted.

 

Ok, I worked it out. :)

[skorchev]

The final will be:

 

[hv=n=s6h1087dakc7&w=s9hdqj10c1093&e=shqj9543d9c&s=skq3hd654c5]399|300|[/hv]

 

a) East returns Q♥, i'll discard club, ruff high next heart, and play ♦A-♦, club ruff , diamond ruff, West will underuff 13th trick

:) East returns ♦, cash ♦A-K, and play ♥ ruffed high, diamond ruff and ... club to West, and taking last 2 trump tricks

OK, that makes, I missed the stupid "step 4" where RHO plays ♣. When RHO get on ♠A (step 3) he plays immediately ♥Q and if you dicard ♣ he plays small ♥, if you discard ♦ he plays ♣.

[skorchev]

OK, I spend some time more ......... I think Eddie and Roland are right. :) :)

 

P.S. In my first post I said that there must have a way to make this game. :)

 

 

 

P.S. 2 There must be a way to improve the defence ...... puffff ....

[foo]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=s654h10876dak7ca76&w=s987hkdqj102ck10932&e=sa10hqj95432d98c84&s=skqj32had6543cqj5]399|300|Scoring: IMP

S: 4S

(E opened 2H)

Lead: HK[/hv]

As South you have arrived in 4♠ after East opened a weak two in hearts. West leads ♥K.

 

Yes, I know that 3NT is where you want to be when you look at all four hands, but that can't be helped. 4♠ is the contract.

 

Do you want to declare or defend? Please be specific no matter which side you support.

 

Roland

I've been gone for a few days and I come back to find this interesting gem.

 

I've just looked at this post, not the rest of the thread. Declare.

 

Variation 1:

My initial reaction, which may be woefully wrong, is to perforce win the ♥A on T1

T2: Then put the ♠K on the table. Let's say E wins the ♠A and

T3: puts a ♥ thru.

!Don't! ruff it. Instead get rid of your mirror distribution in ♣'s by discarding a ♣.

 

Now I think you are cold no matter what W returns.

♠ return (passive): draws last trump. take ♣ hook. conceed ♦ for 10 tricks.

♦ honor return (active): win A. draw last ♠. transposes into above.

 

Variation 2:

Oh, if E plays a ♥ honor on T2, discard the ♣ and when he (presumably) continues with ♥'s

a= if ♥ honor =ruff small=.

b= if ♥x discard a ♦ (forcing W to ruff)

Then continue. (after 2b, W is squeezed in the minors.)

 

 

EDIT: Yowza! What a lot of complicated analysis just because everyone is dead set on getting to Dummy on T2! When what you want results in that many complications, sometimes what you want is what needs to be (re)analyzed.

Edited July 12, 2007 by foo

[1eyedjack]

I've just looked at this post, not the rest of the thread. Declare.

 

Variation 1:

My initial reaction, which may be woefully wrong, is to perforce win the ♥A on T1

T2: Then put the ♠K on the table. Let's say E wins the ♠A and

T3: puts a ♥ thru.

Well yes, declarer now makes. However if East plays any card other than Heart at trick 3 then the defence prevails. BUT only because the Spade King at trick 2 is an error. Your decision to declare is otherwise correct.