Declare or defend?

[Walddk]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=s654h10876dak7ca76&w=s987hkdqj102ck10932&e=sa10hqj95432d98c84&s=skqj32had6543cqj5]399|300|Scoring: IMP

S: 4S

(E opened 2H)

Lead: HK[/hv]

As South you have arrived in 4♠ after East opened a weak two in hearts. West leads ♥K.

 

Yes, I know that 3NT is where you want to be when you look at all four hands, but that can't be helped. 4♠ is the contract.

 

Do you want to declare or defend? Please be specific no matter which side you support.

 

Roland

[bid_em_up]

On the surface, it looks right to defend (at least to me), but I don't quite know why yet. Something to do with the 987♠ being promoted into the defenses 4th trick, I think.

[bhall]

I will try declaring: ♠K to the A, pitch a ♦ on ♥Q return. If ♥J is played, ruff low, overruffed, and now a squeeze will operate on W when I later cash the ♥10. If ♥x is played, pitch another ♦, overruffed, and again I can squeeze W. Other lines seem to fail for lack of hand entries.

[mikeh]

I'll defend, altho I began by saying I'd play. The reasoning that led to 'I'll play' is as follows:

 

Win the lead, play a top ♠. This counter-intuitive play may cost us an extra trump trick.

 

RHO wins and cashes a top ♥...pitch a ♣.

 

Say RHO plays a small ♥, to promote a trump trick. Pitch a small ♦

 

LHO ruffs. Say he leads a ♦. Win, play a trump to hand, lead the ♣Q.

 

If he covers, win and play out all your trump, reducing West to

 

void

void

QJ

109

 

You hold x void xx J and dummy is void Ax xx.

 

When you lead your last trump, LHO is toast. If he pitches a ♣, throw a ♦, cash the ♣J and claim. If he pitches a ♦, you throw a club and claim.

 

If he ruffs the low ♥ and returns the ♣K, win and run the trump, again reducing to a crisscross position (you can cash an early ♦ to reduce to the same 4 card end game).

 

What if RHO doesn't coperate by leading a low ♥.. say he switches to a ♣ instead.

 

If LHO covers, we win in dummy and pull trump. We cross in ♦s and lead a ♥, pitching a small ♦.

 

Say RHO knocks out our last ♣. We run trump, reducing to a 3 card end position:

 

x void xx void with dummy being void void Ax x and LHO being void void QJ 10. Our last trump crushes him.

 

The same is true if RHO leads a ♦ rather than a club after cashing one top ♥.

 

I spent (wasted?) so much time on this that I got very frustrated when I realized that RHO needn't and probably shouldn't cash a top ♥. If he switches to ♦s, I think I'm screwed. I haven't thought through a ♣ switch yet, either.

 

The problem resolves to the same issues that made crossing in a minor at trick 2 ill-advised... we have timing and entry issues for the minor suit squeeze positions we need to inflict upon LHO... if RHO uses his entries to attack dummy's.

 

Anyway, I liked the crisscross positions :P Even if I now think they won't work double-dummy.

 

BTW, I spend so much time on this that I began well before the other posts, and only saw Bhall's post once I had written all of the foregoing B)

[Free]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

[Walddk]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

At this point I am not going to reveal if you are right or not, but you are in your hand after trick 1. Do you enter dummy with a diamond and lead a spade up? If you do, you still owe to tell us where your 10th trick comes from.

 

Roland

[Halo]

I think I can play on diamonds to throw a club aiming to ruff a club for the tenth trick.

 

So I play declarer.

[pclayton]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

At this point I am not going to reveal if you are right or not, but you are in your hand after trick 1. Do you enter dummy with a diamond and lead a spade up? If you do, you still owe to tell us where your 10th trick comes from.

 

Roland

I considered some of the "trumps from hand, loser-on-loser" variations, but I like this start too.

 

So,

 

1. ♥A,

2. ♣ - covered, to dummy. It doesn't help West to duck (actually its easier)

3. ♠ toward hand. If:

 

4A. (easiest) East rises and plays low heart. I pitch a club and end up ruffing a diamond on the board with the (now) long trump.

 

4B. East rises and plays high heart, I ruff high, draw the trump. ♦ to ace, ruff out heart, cash the club. back to the diamond and play the heart - but pitch a loser. East has nothing but hearts and has to put me back on the board.

 

4C. East ducks. I win and play low spade to the A. A high heart doesn't embarass me, so a club seems best. Now the hand looks like a squeeze on West, but I need to rectify the count. ♦ to the board and a high heart pitching a club. East does best by firing back a diamond. I win, and play another heart. East must win and has nothing but hearts and will continue a high one. I discard, and (finally) make the ♥ good.

 

Right now I'll declare but I'm willing to listen to others.

[mikeh]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

At this point I am not going to reveal if you are right or not, but you are in your hand after trick 1. Do you enter dummy with a diamond and lead a spade up? If you do, you still owe to tell us where your 10th trick comes from.

 

Roland

I considered some of the "trumps from hand, loser-on-loser" variations, but I like this start too.

 

So,

 

1. ♥A,

2. ♣ - covered, to dummy. It doesn't help West to duck (actually its easier)

3. ♠ toward hand. If:

 

4A. (easiest) East rises and plays low heart. I pitch a club and end up ruffing a diamond on the board with the (now) long trump.

 

4B. East rises and plays high heart, I ruff high, draw the trump. ♦ to ace, ruff out heart, cash the club. back to the diamond and play the heart - but pitch a loser. East has nothing but hearts and has to put me back on the board.

 

4C. East ducks. I win and play low spade to the A. A high heart doesn't embarass me, so a club seems best. Now the hand looks like a squeeze on West, but I need to rectify the count. ♦ to the board and a high heart pitching a club. East does best by firing back a diamond. I win, and play another heart. East must win and has nothing but hearts and will continue a high one. I discard, and (finally) make the ♥ good.

 

Right now I'll declare but I'm willing to listen to others.

I don't understand your line 4B, Phil.

 

He wins the trump A and plays a top ♥, which you ruff. You draw trump, cross to the ♦A and ruff a ♥, cash a club and cross in ♦ and exit a ♥ 'pitching a loser'.

 

If I have followed correctly, you have played 4♥s (ruffing 2 and pitching on the 4th), 3 trump, 2♦s and 2♣s, so we are looking at an end position in which you have no more trumps and RHO is on lead with nothing but winning hearts. I don't like your chances ;)

[mikeh]

A general note in response to those who start by crossing to dummy and leading a trump: I began my analysis the same way, because we instinctively want to avoid 2 trump losers. I also had the same initial blind spot about RHO meekly playing ♥s. The problem is that an astute RHO will recognize that he needs to screw up your timing and entries. You have begun that already, with your move to dummy, and RHO's best counter is more of the same: play zero rounds of ♥s: play the minors. Now you are down on all lines of play, unless (as is entirely possible) I missed something ;)

 

Squeeze defence is arguably the least discussed area of card play.

[pclayton]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

At this point I am not going to reveal if you are right or not, but you are in your hand after trick 1. Do you enter dummy with a diamond and lead a spade up? If you do, you still owe to tell us where your 10th trick comes from.

 

Roland

I considered some of the "trumps from hand, loser-on-loser" variations, but I like this start too.

 

So,

 

1. ♥A,

2. ♣ - covered, to dummy. It doesn't help West to duck (actually its easier)

3. ♠ toward hand. If:

 

4A. (easiest) East rises and plays low heart. I pitch a club and end up ruffing a diamond on the board with the (now) long trump.

 

4B. East rises and plays high heart, I ruff high, draw the trump. ♦ to ace, ruff out heart, cash the club. back to the diamond and play the heart - but pitch a loser. East has nothing but hearts and has to put me back on the board.

 

4C. East ducks. I win and play low spade to the A. A high heart doesn't embarass me, so a club seems best. Now the hand looks like a squeeze on West, but I need to rectify the count. ♦ to the board and a high heart pitching a club. East does best by firing back a diamond. I win, and play another heart. East must win and has nothing but hearts and will continue a high one. I discard, and (finally) make the ♥ good.

 

Right now I'll declare but I'm willing to listen to others.

I don't understand your line 4B, Phil.

 

He wins the trump A and plays a top ♥, which you ruff. You draw trump, cross to the ♦A and ruff a ♥, cash a club and cross in ♦ and exit a ♥ 'pitching a loser'.

 

If I have followed correctly, you have played 4♥s (ruffing 2 and pitching on the 4th), 3 trump, 2♦s and 2♣s, so we are looking at an end position in which you have no more trumps and RHO is on lead with nothing but winning hearts. I don't like your chances :D

I really need to try these problems on a napkin ;)

[skorchev]

I will try declaring: ♠K to the A, pitch a ♦ on ♥Q return. If ♥J is played, ruff low, overruffed, and now a squeeze will operate on W when I later cash the ♥10. If ♥x is played, pitch another ♦, overruffed, and again I can squeeze W. Other lines seem to fail for lack of hand entries.

When ♥Q win, they stop playing hearts and you go 1 down, because there is no squeeze.

There is a way to make this game (for sure), but now is a bit late ... I'll think about it tomorrow.

[Walddk]

I really need to try these problems on a napkin  ;)

I am impressed if one napkin is enough. I used 6 pages of a large notepad before I figured out if I can or can't make it. Took me close to 50 minutes, but I think I have the answer.

 

Is it worth spending 50 minutes on, you may ask. Probably not, unless bridge is your living. It is for me. I realise that Michael Rosenberg and Bart Bramley have the correct answer in perhaps 15-20 minutes. They are world class analysts, and I am not.

 

Anyway, they won't be able to spend all that time at the table whether they want to defend or declare. Dummy double problems to do not occur at the table.

 

Roland

[jocdelevat]

I count 4 spades 3diamonds 2 clubs and 1heart. I think the key here is east doesn't have enough minors to return for the fourth trick.

 

trick1 i took with ace heart

trick2 i play q club forcing king and took with ace

trick 3 low spade and op take with ace spade

trick 4 op leads low heart and i discard a diamond op take with spade.

From here anything west lead i make: if club i play jack then one round trump and low to diamond then play heart where i discard second diamond. if west play trump is the same play just reverse clubs with spades. if he play diamond i take it then play trump then jack club and go back to dumy with diamonda nd again a heart where i discard second diamond.

 

trick 4 if op play both high hearts i discard 2 diamonds then ruff with j and take trumps out and i have 10 heart good when i can discard a club.

 

At table i will be down for sure. Here I took Free idea that declerer is right if play low spade from dummy. At table it will never come to mind to play low spade from dummy when i have the sequence of kqj.

[mikeh]

trick 4            op leads low heart and i discard a diamond op take with spade.

From here anything west lead i make:

I don't think you have the right to force East to rectify the count while tapping his partner :) The point of the problem is that when you find a line that makes, consider whether the defence maybe could do something to spoil your plan... here, it is easy: East returns a diamond, not a low heart.

[Free]

Declare seems right if you start with trumps from North...

At this point I am not going to reveal if you are right or not, but you are in your hand after trick 1. Do you enter dummy with a diamond and lead a spade up? If you do, you still owe to tell us where your 10th trick comes from.

 

Roland

♣Q (covered) to the Ace is probably best, so you keep communication with your hand. I think you can endplay East or force West to keep covering ♦ to avoid this, so you either create your ♦3 or you discard the losing ♣ on a ♥ and crossruff. I admit I'm not sure if this works all the time, but I'm too lazy to write all possibilities down. ;)

[Edmunte1]

I bet on declarer. Here are 2 main ideas in this board: to endplay East or ruff 4th diamond in dummy

1)The first mandatory step is to remove the exist cards in clubs from East hand. So i'll start with ♣Q, let's consider that West doesn't cover (if covers is almost the same). Now i'll play second club to ♣A,

2) to play trump from dummy. Here we have 2 cases:

2.1) East plays the Ace and then play a high heart. I ruff high, play diamond to A♦, ruff high another heart , diamond to K♦, and play the last heart discarding a club, now East should play ruff and discard and concede the game (i'll make first ruff in dummy, then i have ♦ and ♣ in dummy to ruff in hand the suit that East keeps)

2.2) East plays ♠10. Now i'll play ♦ from hand,

2.2.1) if West plays small i'll duck, and reach also an endplay position if East returns high heart by playing ♦+♠ (after ruffing high). If East tries to escape from the endplay, i'll manage to ruff last diamond in dummy

2.2.2) if West plays high ♦, i'll take and play another ♠. Now if East return high heart we return to a known theme, if he returns ♦9, if Weast doesn't cover i'll duck and i'm back into position 2.2.1). If West cover then i'll take my 10th trick from sheer power (43 in ♦ vs 102 ;) ).

That should be all

[skorchev]

I bet on declarer. Here are 2 main ideas in this board: to endplay East or ruff 4th diamond in dummy

1)The first mandatory step is to remove the exist cards in clubs from East hand. So i'll start with ♣Q, let's consider that West doesn't cover (if covers is almost the same). Now i'll play second club to ♣A,

2) to play trump from dummy. Here we have 2 cases:

2.1) East plays the Ace and then play a high heart. I ruff high, play diamond to A♦, ruff high another heart , diamond to K♦, and play the last heart discarding a club, now East should play ruff and discard and concede the game (i'll make first ruff in dummy, then i have ♦ and ♣ in dummy to ruff in hand the suit that East keeps)

2.2) East plays ♠10. Now i'll play ♦ from hand,

2.2.1) if West plays small i'll duck, and reach also an endplay position if East returns high heart by playing ♦+♠ (after ruffing high). If East tries to escape from the endplay, i'll manage to ruff last diamond in dummy

2.2.2) if West plays high ♦, i'll take and play another ♠. Now if East return high heart we return to a known theme, if he returns ♦9, if Weast doesn't cover i'll duck and i'm back into position 2.2.1). If West cover then i'll take my 10th trick from sheer power (43 in ♦ vs 102 ;) ).

That should be all

2.1) When you play the last heart West ruff, draw diamond and play diamond and East overruffs. Defence makes 1♦+♠A+2 ruffs;

2.2.1) I can't understand your idea, but after ducking of ♦ East play hearts and you will go down again;

2.2.2) The "known" theme is to go down.

 

I spend about 40-50 minutes analysing this board and I think there is no way to make 4♠ with excellent defence.

[Edmunte1]

2.1) When you play the last heart West ruff, draw diamond and play diamond and East overruffs. Defence makes 1♦+♠A+2 ruffs;

2.2.1) I can't understand your idea, but after ducking of ♦ East play hearts and you will go down again;

2.2.2) The "known" theme is to go down.

 

I spend about 40-50 minutes analysing this board and I think there is no way to make 4♠ with excellent defence.

 

Please take a pack of cards and test it. I'm willing to take any bets on this one

[jtfanclub]

Please take a pack of cards and test it. I'm willing to take any bets on this one

2.1) East plays the Ace and then play a high heart. I ruff high, play diamond to A♦, ruff high another heart , diamond to K♦, and play the last heart discarding a club, now East should play ruff and discard and concede the game (i'll make first ruff in dummy, then i have ♦ and ♣ in dummy to ruff in hand the suit that East keeps)

 

Not with that you won't.

 

Trick 1: Heart to Ace.

Trick 2: Club Jack around

Trick 3: Club Queen to King and Ace.

Trick 4: Spade to Ace

Trick 5: Heart ruffed high

Trick 6: Diamond to ace

Trick 7: Heart ruffed high.

Trick 8: Diamond to King

Trick 9: Heart, discarding a diamond

 

[hv=n=s65hd7c7&w=s98hdqct&e=sthqj9dc&s=sk3hd4c5]399|300|[/hv]

 

East just plays a heart, ruffed by West with the 9, back comes whatever you didn't discard to be ruffed by East with the 10.

 

If you play the king of spades on trick 8, then East...hmmm, maybe that does work. On the heart back, you sluff a diamond. If West ruffs, just sluff a club from dummy, and take the crossruff on the last two. If West discards a minor, then that makes a minor card good in dummy, so you can ruff in dummy and play that minor and force him to ruff.

 

So, with a slight modification that does work.

 

But what happens on trick 5 if he leads a diamond back?

[bid_em_up]

2) to play trump from dummy. Here we have 2 cases:

2.1) East plays the Ace and then play a high heart. I ruff high, play diamond to A♦, ruff high another heart, diamond to K♦, and play the last heart discarding a club, now East should play ruff and discard and concede the game (i'll make first ruff in dummy, then i have ♦ and ♣ in dummy to ruff in hand the suit that East keeps)

I think you lose your bet.

 

in 2.1)

 

You have lost the spade A. You are ruffing 2 hearts high (or so you stated), You are losing a heart as you pitch a club. At this point you are down to Kx in spades, having lost 2 tricks already. East now continues another heart. West can ruff (or overruff you if you choose to ruff at all) and then lead either minor suit on which East uppercuts you with the 10 of trumps to promote Wests last trump. So this line fails as it is stated.

 

It does appear to work as suggested by jtfanclub, however. Maybe that is what you meant to say....but you missed the part about cashing the spade K earlier. As he also implied, you are making an assumption that East will continue a heart at the point he is in with the spade Ace, and he may not......

 

(Note, this is the only case that matters, as you *had* to play a trump from dummy....what happens when East plays the spade 10 is not relevant as it is a double dummy problem, Case 2.2 is meaningless.)

 

I'm not claiming that there is not a 100% line for declarer to succeed or the defense will always prevail. Only that your stated lines are flawed. :D

 

Hope you didn't bet the farm on this one. :(

[Edmunte1]

Yes, sorry when i wrote, in line 2.1, i jumped over "i cash one round of trumps"

[Edmunte1]

But what happens on trick 5 if he leads a diamond back?

If West plays small on ♦9 i'll duck, if he covers, i'll come on trumps in hand, playing diamond again, if West plays the deuce i'll duck, if he plays high i'll take and make a natural diamond trick.

[bid_em_up]

But what happens on trick 5 if he leads a diamond back?

If West plays small on ♦9 i'll duck, if he covers, i'll come on trumps in hand, playing diamond again, if West plays the deuce i'll duck, if he plays high i'll take and make a natural diamond trick.

So you duck the diamond 9 with West playing the duece of diamonds. Thats two tricks lost. Now East continues the heart Q.

 

Now what?

 

P.S. I also think that covering the club at trick two gives you more problems than you give it credit for....

[Edmunte1]

So you duck the diamond 9 with West playing the duece of diamonds. Thats two tricks lost. Now East continues the heart Q.

 

Now what?

 

Now i discard club on ♥Q, and i'll manage to ruff diamond in dummy

 

"P.S. I also think that covering the club at trick two gives you more problems than you give it credit for...."

 

No, i'll just play for now trumps from dummy and cash ♣J later going back to similar studied position.