everyone's mess

[jim420]

With no previous agreement between pairs...

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s863hat9752da92c2&w=sj9752hj83dj73cj9&e=sakhq4dkq65cak865&s=sqt4hk6dt84cqt743]399|300|Scoring: IMP

W N E S

- 2♥ X 3♥

3♠ P 4♣ P

P 4♥ X P

P P

 

lead ♠A

4♥xN-4[/hv]

 

This hand started off with a preempt of 2♥, then... :)

Comments on everyone's bidding welcome...

[gwnn]

East's bids were fine. 10/10

 

South's raise to 3♥ is dubious, it breaks the law without any shortness and with lots of quacks. But it's almost "ok". 6/10

 

West's 3♠ sounds like an overbid, especially at white. Game is probably not missed. Anyhoo, I can live with 3♠. 7/10

 

North's reraise to 4♥ is totally insane and breaks every rule of partnership discipline and common sense in general. 0/100

[pbleighton]

East's bids were fine. 10/10

 

South's raise to 3♥ is dubious, it breaks the law without any shortness and with lots of quacks. But it's almost "ok". 6/10

 

West's 3♠ sounds like an overbid, especially at white. Game is probably not missed. Anyhoo, I can live with 3♠. 7/10

 

North's reraise to 4♥ is totally insane and breaks every rule of partnership discipline and common sense in general. 0/100

 

Agree, except that I have more sympathy for 3S, the 5th spade makes 3S an attractive overbid.

 

The orignal 2H isn't everyone's style at unfavorable, but it's fine with me.

 

Peter

[TimG]

What about West's pass over 4♣? Might the combination of 3♠ (showing values) and intervenor's DBL followed by a new suit create a force?

 

Tim

[BillHiggin]

East's thoughts must run along the lines "I have only one suicidal partner and two suicidal opponents - the odds are in my favor".

[gwnn]

I think 4♣ shows values but is NF. After all, 3♠ only promised a good-ish hand for spades, not for minors.

[TimG]

I think 4♣ shows values but is NF. After all, 3♠ only promised a good-ish hand for spades, not for minors.

If doubler had something like AKx x KQxx AKQxx, wouldn't he want to explore slam, but not launch right into RKC?

[han]

I think that 2H is horrible at these colors.

 

I would also double 2H with the east hand.

 

I think that 3H is a very bad idea at these colors.

 

I don't like 3S at all.

 

Pass by north is excellent.

 

4C looks reasonable with the east hand, I don't see any other options.

 

Pass by south is excellent.

 

West's pass is impossible. You cannot make a free 3S bid and then pass the forcing 4C.

 

4H by north is the worst call of the auction imo.

 

Excellent double and passes by al players follow.

[han]

I think 4♣ shows values but is NF. After all, 3♠ only promised a good-ish hand for spades, not for minors.

Here is a rule for you: if parter doubles, you make a free bid and partner bids a new suit, that's always forcing.

[helene_t]

On a scale where 10 is brilliant, 5 is barely acceptable and 0 is devoted partnership destruction:

 

2♥: I like undiciplined preempts but this goes a little too far. Let's give it a 5.

Dbl: 10

3♥: A bad bid that works surprisingly often, especially if opps over-rate you. 6.

3♠: An overbid, this is not MP. 4.

Pass: 10

4♣: This is forcing, right? Just in case it isn't (and because Hamman's law may apply), 8.

Pass: 10

Pass: 4. This is difficult to rate since the issue here is not what to bid with this particular hand, but whether 4♣ is forcing.

4♥: 0. He already overstated his O/D ratio by opening 2♥. Now he doesn't respect p's captaincy and besides he rescues opps when they seem to have a misunderstanding. If he isn't known to be an otherwise nice person, this bid earns a place on my enemies list.

X: 10. Even if pass would have been forcing (which partner won't think now that he passed 4♣), X is outstanding.

Pass: 10

Pass: 8. There is a case for 4♠ but pass is probably better.

Pass: 10.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

given the vulnerability, I can live with

each bid until 4C.

4C is forcing, i.e. partner should not

pass, most likely he should bid 4S

as choice of game.

4H is asking for it, did North listen

to the bidding or was he asleep,

and East answered.

 

Thats it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

 

deleted

[helene_t]

I disagree. South has no fit. Whether he has values is pretty much irelevant.

 

Opposite a diciplined preempt, 3♥ rates to go for 500 against opps' game, sometimes 800. As it is, it goes for 500 against opps' partscore.

[hotShot]

Never rise your own preempt!

Next to north 4♥ bid everything else looks like a small error.

[han]

4♣: This is forcing, right? Just in case it isn't (and because Hamman's law may apply), 8.

I disagree, I think 4C is the best bid (and forcing!) so it deserves a 10.

 

3NT is a horrible bid imo, partner almost certainly has 1-2 hearts at these colors and playing her for the ace or king is seriously against the odds. By the way, I believe it is usually called Hamman's rule, not Hamman's law.

[helene_t]

4♣: This is forcing, right? Just in case it isn't (and because Hamman's law may apply), 8.

I disagree, I think 4C is the best bid (and forcing!) so it deserves a 10.

 

3NT is a horrible bid imo, partner almost certainly has 1-2 hearts at these colors and playing her for the ace or king is seriously against the odds. By the way, I believe it is usually called Hamman's rule, not Hamman's law.

Yes, I agree that 4♣ is the best bid. What I was trying to say was that there may be alternatives (much worse alternatives, but still alternatives), which is not the case for some of the other bids, such as E's double of the final 4♥ contract.

[the hog]

I think that 2H is horrible at these colors.

 

I would also double 2H with the east hand.

 

I think that 3H is a very bad idea at these colors.

 

I don't like 3S at all.

 

Pass by north is excellent.

 

4C looks reasonable with the east hand, I don't see any other options.

 

Pass by south is excellent.

 

West's pass is impossible. You cannot make a free 3S bid and then pass the forcing 4C.

 

4H by north is the worst call of the auction imo.

 

Excellent double and passes by al players follow.

I agree with these comments wholeheartedly. It is not the vul that makes 2H horrible, but the fact that 1) The suit is not that great, 2) You have 3 card support for S if pd has them. 3) You have ok D support as well.

[SoTired]

2H - OK, 8 hcp + 6 card suit, wtp. I don't worry much about which 8 they are

Dbl - OK. Other option is 3N

3H - aaa. slightly acceptable. I would not do it, but usually works out OK

3S - TERRIBLE with only 3 jacks. Mandatory pass. If partner has a big hand, then partner will dbl again. No reason to bid.

4C - Not the best. I would bid 4S, hoping partner has a good 5-card spade suit.

4H - UNBELIEVABLE. You can drop the opps in 4 of a minor and you bid again?