wheels fell off.....

[gwnn]

[hv=d=w&v=b&n=saqjxhaxxdxxcakxx&s=sxhqxxxdxxxcqjtxx]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♦-X-p-1♥

1♠-p-p-2♣

p-2♦-p-3♣

p-4♥-all pass

 

-200. 0%.

 

What happened?

[Gerben42]

Everthing went fine until North suddenly lost his mind and jumped to game...

[skjaeran]

North misunderstood the auction IMO.

 

South rebid 2♣ showing a competitive 4-5 hand. North then made a forward move bye cuebidding 2♦. When south rebid 3♣ north had an automatic pass.

 

Obviously north was playing in some other universe.

[han]

Agree with the comments, good auction until north bid 4H. North should have known that south has only 4 hearts.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

North decided, that he has no reasonable bid over

1S and passes, he accepts that the partnership

may defend 1S, fair enough, X of 1S is certainly

an option

 

After his partner reopens, he decided to punish his

partner for reopening and thats it.

In other words I prefer 3H to 4H (and pass is not out of

this world either, but we play MP, so I can understand

going after the Mayor).

 

With kind regards

Marlowe.

[foo]

South bears some blame as well. That's a lot of bidding on 5 HCP. Worse, it probably convinced N that they were 55 in the Roundeds.

 

If S wanted to get their ♣'s in the auction with a hand of that (lack of) strength, they should either pretend they don't have 4 ♥'s (not usually recommended) or make a balancing X to show ♣'s but not enough strength to bid them.

 

N, holding an 18 count, decided that S was at the top of the 0-9 HCP range they originally showed and was ?5?5 to boot and "fell in love with their hand."

[Fluffy]

South bid looks natural, north went crazy.

 

 

I just realiced I haev no agreements on what a double of 1♠ would mean by any of the players, what do you guys play?

[Gerben42]

By doubler:

 

Support-ish: 3-card ♥ and significant extras.

 

By advancer:

 

4♥ and maximum for the 1♥ (about 7 pts.)

 

2♥ would usually be about 5 pts 5♥...

[Codo]

I never play penalty doubles but here I would.

So with north this would show an even stronger hand and with south something like 4/4 in the majors.

 

And for the original problem: I am with anybody else, that the bidding was fine till 3 Club and that North has no excuse for his bid.

[P_Marlowe]

South bears some blame as well.  That's a lot of bidding on 5 HCP.  Worse, it probably convinced N that they were 55 in the Roundeds.

<snip>

You expect South to pass, really?

In the passout seat? Playing MP?

 

He already said, that he was broke,

nothing changes the first message

he sent out, he is just looking for

a partial or hoping that he pushed

the opponents a level higher.

I would say, that pass is not an option.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

North should have doubled 1♠ which would show his hand almost exactly. His strength and exact shape are typical for a double. His passed made him think that South wouldn't expect such a strong hand, even after his 2♦ bid, and that's probably the reason why he jumped to game.

 

And as others have noted, South's 3♣ bid pretty much denied five hearts.

 

South's bidding was completely normal.

[foo]

South bears some blame as well.  That's a lot of bidding on 5 HCP.  Worse, it probably convinced N that they were 55 in the Roundeds.

<snip>

You expect South to pass, really?

In the passout seat? Playing MP?

 

He already said, that he was broke,

nothing changes the first message

he sent out, he is just looking for

a partial or hoping that he pushed

the opponents a level higher.

I would say, that pass is not an option.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

No, I said S should X in the pass out seat.

 

I also agree that S should not have been put in the position of whether or not to pass out 1♠.

 

N is certainly strong enough to take further action directly over 1♠.

 

S's bidding evidently convinced N that S was at the top of their previously shown ~0-9 HCP range.

Quick, you hold 18 and pd is showing 7+. What level do you want to play?

Answer: Game.

 

S does not have that hand. Therefore they should take less aggressive calls.

A balancing X would keep the auction alive w/o as much risk of N getting too excited.

[kenrexford]

South has nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Had south held ♠x ♥QJ10xx ♦xxx ♣Qxxx, that's the type of hand with which I'd bid an immediate 2♥. 8 Losers, fifth heart, a player hand. With 5-4 the other way, at MP, South has little option except to bid it exactly as he did.

 

North, hearing 3♣, must view South's judgment as way too conservative. North, as everyone has noticed, went nuts.

[foo]

Yes, N went nuts. But not w/o some provocation.

 

we should try very hard not to provoke pd into making a mistake.

[TimG]

If S wanted to get their ♣'s in the auction with a hand of that (lack of) strength, they should either pretend they don't have 4 ♥'s (not usually recommended) or make a balancing X to show ♣'s but not enough strength to bid them.

I would have guessed that double showed values with some lack of an obvious bid while 2♣ showed pretty much the hand given: 45 in ♥♣ and a desire to compete.

[foo]

If S wanted to get their ♣'s in the auction with a hand of that (lack of) strength, they should either pretend they don't have 4 ♥'s (not usually recommended) or make a balancing X to show ♣'s but not enough strength to bid them.

I would have guessed that double showed values with some lack of an obvious bid while 2♣ showed pretty much the hand given: 45 in ♥♣ and a desire to compete.

...and for me, S's hand is weak enough that they =do= "lack an obvious bid".

 

2C here by S should show a better hand than a soft 5 count.

 

For =exactly= the reason that if pd is holding a good hand they might get inappropriately excited.

 

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination ruling N blameless; but he made a mistake it was easier to make than it should have been.