Double ! Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 What follows are a lot of questions regarding how you play your initial responses to Partner's 1NT opening, and how you play various rebids by responder. I learned the hard way that I can't put these questions in a poll format unless each question constitutes a separate poll. Your responses to many of the questions might be wtp? That's OK. This is not a contest to see which bids or methods are "better" than others. Rather, I am curious about how consistent some answers might be, and where there are differences. Please assume that you are playing some variation of Stayman and some variation of initial transfer responses. If you prefer some other structure such Keri, please answer as though you were playing stayman with transfers. If you play different structures with different partners, please give your preferred interpretation of the bids or bidding sequences. Please also preface your responses with an indication of the hcp range that you play for 1NT openers. For the purpose of this survey, please assume that the opps are passing throughout the bidding. Also: for each question, please first give your answer if the format is imps or imp teams, and your second answer assuming that you are playing Match Points (MP) or Board-a-Match (BAM). As always, i appreciate your taking the time to answer these "simple" questions. I apologize for the length of the survey. DHL FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean?1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? 2) 2♠ 3) 2NT 4) 3♣ 5) 3♦ 6) 3♥ 7) 3♠ 8) 4♣ 9) 4♠ 10) 4NT 11) 5NT For the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.) G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?) O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? Thank You Very Much to any and all who responded to this survey, whether you answered all or just some of the questions. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Elianna and I play basically Walsh responses. They are: 1NT - 2♣ = stayman, could be weak short in clubs or weak with both majors and ♥>=♠. 1NT - 2♦, 2♥ = transfers 1NT - 2♠ = minor suit stayman, but could also be a signoff in diamonds or a weak hand with both minors. Opener bids four-card minor or 2NT if none. After this, responder can pass with a weak hand or bid 3♦ (diam signoff) or 3♣ (5-5 minors weak). Responder's 3M bid shows shortness with a good hand agreeing the minor suggested by opener, raising a minor to the four-level asks for a cuebid, and various notrump calls are natural (3NT to play, 4NT quant). 1NT - 2NT = club signoff or any game-forcing 4441. Opener bids 3♣, after which responder bids the singleton with a strong 4441, or 3NT to show club singleton. I have sometimes abused this bid on 4351 type hands when it seemed appropriate. 1NT - 3m = natural game invite 1NT - 3M = natural game force 1NT - 3NT = to play 1NT - 4♣ = gerber 1NT - 4♦/4♥ = transfers 1NT - 4♠ = to play 1NT - 4NT = quantitative 1NT - 5NT = forcing; invite to grand slam At some point we may switch to south african transfers at the four-level but it's not a high priority (even though I think Gerber is silly). 1NT - 2♣ - 2♦: Pass = three-suited weak hand2♥ = weak both majors, ♥>=♠2♠ = invite with 5♠, usually 4♥ also2NT = invite may/may not have 4cM3m = natural forcing3M = smolen3NT = to play 1NT - 2♣ - 2♥: Pass = weak hand2♠ = invite with 4-5 spades (usually 4 though); not forcing2NT = invite no 4cM3m = natural forcing3♥ = invite agree hearts3♠ = slam try agree hearts, ask for cuebids3NT = signoff, guarantee 4♠4m = splinter for hearts4♥ = to play4NT = quantitative (should have four spades) 1NT - 2♣ - 2♠: Pass = weak2NT = inv may not have 4♥3m = natural forcing3♥ = artificial agrees spades slam try3♠ = invite3NT = to play, should have 4♥4♣, 4♦, 4♥ = splinter for spades4♠ = to play4nt = quant There probably exist some subtle optimizations that can be applied to this structure, but it's worked reasonably for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 My answers depend very much on who I am playing with, so I will answer based on my most regular partnerships. My answers here will be for my longtime partnership in England. I will let Jason answer (if he desires) for what he and I play. FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean? 1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman?Stayman, garbage included, as well as smolen. 2♣ then a response other than 2♥ (garbage), 2♠ (inv with 5♠), or 2NT (nat inv) is GF. 2) 2♠Minor suit stayman. Can be weak with both minors, a sign-off in diamonds, or slammish with one or both minors. 3) 2NTPuppet to 3♣. Signoff in clubs or 3-suited slammish. 4) 3♣5) 3♦ Both of these are natural invitational and NF. They are defined as hands that would bid game if partner 'super-accepted' a transfer to a minor. 6) 3♥ 7) 3♠ (13)(45) GF hands. 8) 4♣ (and 4♦)Transfers to 4♥ (and 4♠) respectively. Responder can 'accept' or 'reject' transfer only based on positional values (tenaces). 9) 4♠ (and 4♥)To Play. 10) 4NT Quantitative. Invitational to slam. Opener may suggest a minor suited slam by bidding 5m. We do not include 5cM in our NT, so 5M is undefined. 11) 5NTInvitation to grand slam, although it has never come up. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid. A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean?Weak with both majors. Opener should pass or correct to 2♠. Rarely, opener may bid 2NT (solid minor and stop in the other minor, gambling on taking tricks and opened an offshape 1NT) or 3m (similar gambling type hand, but minor is not solid) B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean?Invitational with 5♠ (rarely may have only 4♠ if, e.g. 4=1=4=4 and you decided to gamble). We adopted this from Justin's methods. C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers).Invitational, but does not promise a 4cM. D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean?4M (unknown), 5+♣, GF. Might be slammish or might just be concerned that 3NT is the right spot. E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean?Same as above, but with 5+♦. F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smollen answers here.)Yep. Smolen. G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean?Invitational with 5♠. See B) above. H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?Invitational. Does not necessarily imply 4♠. I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean?4 of the other major and 5+♣, GF. See D) above. J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean?4 of the other major and 5+♦, GF. See E) above. K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean?Agrees major, slam try. Undisclosed shortness. (Next step asks.) L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean?Keycard for that major. M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?)Balanced Slam Try. K), L), M) based on the Aces Scientific methods. I hope I haven't misrepresented them. Someone else can probably clarify. N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?)I don't play that it exists. O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean?Quantitative. Definitely has 4 of the other major though. Also should note that 1NT - 2♣ - 2M - 3NT promises 4 of the other major the way I play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean? 1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? Yes. Always. 2) 2♠ Minor Stayman. 3) 2NT Relay to 3C. May be passed. Or, may be the start of a slam try. 4) 3♣ Puppet Stayman 5) 3♦ 5-5 Majors, invitational+. If Opener has a "slammish max," he bids 4C=H or 4D=S; 4M is a "non-slammish max." 6) 3♥ 3145/3154, GF 7) 3♠ 1345/1354, GF 8) 4♣ Gerber in one partnership; quantitative in another. If Quant., bid 4-card suits up line to accept, repeat fives, bidding denied shows 5, stuff like that. 9) 4♠ 3343 quantitative (4NT is 3334 quantitative); other quants handled through 2S or 2NT 10) 4NT 3334 Quant (see above) 11) 5NT big quant. -- forcing For the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? bust B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? Unbalanced GT with five spades; 2NT asks for minor C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? Invitational, may have undisclosed 4-card spade suit -- Opener may ask if accepting. (so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). Nope! Probably not. LOL D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? GF, natural. E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? Same as 3C (but diamonds). F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smollen answers here.) Not precisely Smollen. Smolen. G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? Unbalanced GT with five spades (see above). H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? GT, may have undisclosed 4-card spade suit (see above). I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? GF, natural. J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? GF, natural. K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? General slam try, sets trumps. Does not promise a stiff or void in the OM, although tends to deny one if spades are agreed. Starts cuebidding. L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? Splinter. M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) Splinter. N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?) Splinter (4H when 2S bid). If 2H-P-4S, is RKCB, agreeing hearts but Opener should treat the spade King and Queen as the "key cards" when answering. Responder typically has KQ in trumps but wants to know about spade secondaries. O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? 1430. Thank You Very Much to any and all who responded to this survey, whether you answered all or just some of the questions. DHL See above -- answers inserted into the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Here's my preferred methods. They're well documented in "NT Bidding the Scanian Way" I've only been able to convince a copy partners to adopt this full scheme. Set 1: 2♣ = Stayman like (not garbage Stayman)2♦ = 4+ Hearts2♥ = 4+ Spades2♠ = Asks for range and minors2NT = Asks for a weak doubleton3♣ = to play3♦ = game force, three suited with a short minor3♥ = game force, three suited with short hearts3♠ = game force, three suited with short spades4N = to play4♣ = transfer to hearts4♦ = transfer to spades Set 2: (A) After 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ 2♥ = invitations, both majors2♠ = 5 spades, invitational2NT = puppet to 3♣3♣ = puppet to 3♦3♦ = minor suit Stayman3♥ = Smolen3♠ = Smolen3N = to play4M = to play4N = Quantitative (B) After 1N - 2♣ - 2♥ 2♠ = invite with 5+ Spades2NT = Puppet to 3♣ © after 1N - 2C - 2M 3♣ = puppet to 3♦3♦ = minor suit stayman3OM = 5-4 or 4-5 in the majors, slam interest4m = cue bid, slam try, balanced hand, no shortage4N = balanced slam try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 You are asking for a book. Or at least a large chapter. As hrothgar mentions, entire books have been written on this (older would be Ron Anderson's _Perfect Your NT Bidding_, newer would be Danny Kleinman's _The NT Zone_) One thing new I'll add to the other comments is that xfers loose their utility as the range of the NT gets weaker. There is vigorous debate as to whether xfers are worth it playing Weak NTs.(if opening a weak 1N opposite a passed hand they are especially suspect) For the Mini AKA Kamikaze NT, xfers are definitely not good. "Double Barrelled" AKA "2Way" Stayman is preferred by many where xfers are not liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean?1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? Yes, Yes 2) 2♠ Puppet to NT to show Invitational touching 55s or solid D with shortage 3) 2NT Puppet to 3C for T in minor OR hopping I 55s OR solid C with shortage 4) 3♣ Invit nat5) 3♦ Invit nat6) 3♥ Fragment GF to bare min slam-try (both minors shortage OM)7) 3♠ See above8) 4♣ transfer to H 9) 4♠ To play10) 4NT Quantitative but weird11) 5NT not playedFor the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? Pick a Major : weak B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? GF RELAY for distribution C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). natural Invit D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? GF min slam-try with 6+minor and some shortage - slam likely if no wastage opposite shortage E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? GF slam try 55+ both minors but again only a minimum slam-try, canot afford to relay so SHOWS F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smollen answers here.) GF, 4M shortage in OM with both minors : up to minimum slam-try, a hand which cannot afford to relay as too much to find out so SHOWS G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? GF RELAY H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? nat I - no guarantee of S I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? Over 2H= single-suited (6+) minor slam-try with undisclosed shortage, Over 2S= GF Relay J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? Over 2H= 55+minors slam try SHOWINGover 2S= single-suited minor slam try with undisclosed shortage K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? Minimum slam-try in M with shortage in next suit up L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? over 2H= slamtry in H with short Dover 2S = slamtry in S with short D M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) over 2H= slam-try in H with short Sover 2S= slam-try in H with short H N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?) over 2H= Kickback for Hover 2S= slam-try in S with short C O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? over 2H non-existentover 2S= Kickback for S DHL Answers inserted into quote below The object is to :_ a) sign off in any suitB) show all forms of distributional Invitational hands c) describe minimum slam-try hands (single and 2 suiters) with outside shortage that will have a good play for slam opposite no wastaged) relay with remainder GF that is accomplished (with some artificiality) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Please keep the answers coming. So far, there appear to be many sequences where the respondents somewhat agree, and many others where there appear to be significant differences. So far, none of the respondents appear to be playing 4-suit transfers with pre-acceptance, nor has anyone reported playing 1NT-2C-2Y-3m as a weak 4-6, a treatment that was quite common not that long ago when I actually played live bridge. I am starting to believe that some of my approaches are either obsolete, or have been scratched in favor of different ones. TxDHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean?1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? yes if I don´t play FES 2) 2♠inv. or sign of in a minor 3) 2NT both minors weak or strong4) 3♣ inviting in Clubs 5) 3♦ Inv. in D 6) 3♥ 43337) 3♠ 3433 8) 4♣ RCKB for Club 9) 4♠ to play vers. a weak NT, impossible with a strong NT 10) 4NT quantitative, Responder may pass or bid his 5 card suit 11) 5NT asking for 6 or 7 NT For the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? inv. 5/4 opps. weak NT B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? inv. 5/4 C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). inv. strength with at least one 4 card major D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? sign off opp. weak NT, GF opps. strong NT E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? both majors 5/5 opps my regular pd in a weak NT contextGF with D opps a strong NT F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.) Indeed, 5/4 GF smolen with strong NT, nat or smolen with weak NT G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? GF with Heart fit (I know this is far from standard, but I prefer it..) H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? inv. with 4 Spades I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? weak NT: Sign off with 4 in the other majorStrong NT second suit, GF or advanced Cuebid if we later confirm fit. J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? weak NT: Sign off with 4 in the other majorStrong NT second suit, GF or advanced Cuebid if we later confirm fit. K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? GF with Fit 3 Spade is a splinter L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? RCKB for this suit opps. weak NTSplinter opp. strong NT M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) RCKB for this suit opps. weak NTSplinter opp. strong NT N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?) 4 Heart is a splinter, 4 Spade does not exist in my universe O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? That he forgot the system or that he is simply interessted in my keycards. answers insertedWith a pick up pd, my answers had been obviously different and easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 1) yes2) transfer to ♣3) transfer to ♦4) Puppet Stayman5) GF 55+ minors6) splinter 3-1-(54)7) splinter 1-3-(54)8) Gerber (never used it)9) 65+ minors (not SI)10) quanti11) 6NT or 7NT? (still waiting for this to happen) A) Garbage;) inv with exactly 5crd ♠ (other suit possible)C) inv (with a 4crd M otherwise no Stayman)D) GF natural (4M5+♣)E) GF natural (4M5+♦)F) SmolenG) inv with exactly 5crd ♠ (other suit possible but not 4♥)H) inv (with 4♠)I) GF natural (4oM5+♣)J) GF natural (4oM5+♦)K) balanced SI with a fitL) splinterM) splinterN) splinterO) quanti (with 4oM) B+G may seem strange. They are a consequence of the fact I like to play second round transfers after Jacoby (1nt-2♥-2♠-2NT = transfer ♣). Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? Yes2) 2♠ = Transfer to ♣'s3) 2NT = Transfer to ♦'s4) 3♣ = (43)51 GF5) 3♦ = (43)15 GF6) 3♥ = 31(45) GF7) 3♠ = 13(45) GF8) 4♣ = Gerber9) 4♠ = 66m, slamish10) 4NT = Quantitative11) 5NT = Quantitative to grand A) Weak with both majors (Garbage Stayman).B ) GF RelayC) Natural Invite, doesn't promise a 4cMD) Natural GF with major sidesuitE) Same as above.F) SmolenG) GF RelayH) Natural inv., doesn't promise 4c♠I) Natural GF over 2♥, showing 4c♠, GF Relay over 2♠J) Natural GF with 4cOMK) 3♥ over 2♠ is undefined I believe, should be balanced slamtry in ♠, 3♠ over 2♥ = splinterL) SplinterM) SplinterN) 4♥=splinter, 4♠=Exclusion BWO) Quantitative (with other M) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 In my most experienced 2/1 partnership (with Smirny) I play variable 1NT (11-13 1st 2nd NV, 14 - 16 otherwise). We use the same responses to 1NT in both situations. We play the same system at any scoring, although our evaluation may be different. 1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? Yes. 2) 2♠ Invite to 3NT, weak minor or strong 5440. 3) 2NT Both minors 4) 3♣ Sort of invite: asks partner to bid 3NT with fit 5) 3♦ Sort of invite: asks partner to bid 3NT with fit 6) 3♥ short ♥, 3♠ (5431-conv.) 7) 3♠ short ♠, 3♥ (5431-conv.) 8) 4♣ Both majors 5-5 9) 4♠ Both minors 10) 4NT Quantitative 11) 5NT Invite to 7NT For the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? Weak, both majors B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? Relay asking for further distribution C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). Invite to 3NT (promises 4M for us) D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? Natural forcing E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? Natural forcing F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.) Smolen as anticipated ;) G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? GF Relay, asking further distribution H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? Invite with 4♠ I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? After 2♠: GF relayAfter 2♥: Natural GF J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? Natural GF K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? After 2♠, 3♥ is forcing with ♣After 2♥, 3♠ is a splinter L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? Fit and splinter M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) Fit and splinter N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?) After 2♠, 4♥ is a splinterAfter 2♥, 4♠ is Voidwood O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? Quantitative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm also not sure what the point of this is, but here is what I play with Arend: 1. Yes we play garbage stayman. 2. 2S is a transfer to clubs. 3. 2NT is a transfer to diamonds or weak with both majors. 4. 3C shows both minors, invitational. 5. 3D shows both minors, GF. 6 + 7. 3H and 3S are wizard splinters. 8. 4C is 1430 blackwood. 9. 4S is quantitative with both minors. 10. 4NT is quantitative. 11. 5NT is a quantitative try for 7. Over 1NT-2C-2D: A. 2H is weak, both majors. B. invitational with 5 spades (says nothing about hearts). C. invitational, may or may not have a 4-card major. D+ E. Forcing, natural. F. Smolen. G. invitational with 5 spades, fewer than 4 hearts. H. invitational, may or may not have 4 spades. I+J. forcing, natural. K. slam try in opener's major with undisclosed shortness. L. 1430 RKC. M. quantitave slam try with fit. N. 4S over 2H is exclusion RKC, 4H over 2S should probably be the same but undiscussed. O. Quantitative, 4 cards in the other major. We play the second round transfers as described in Justin's blog, hence our choice to bid stayman with invitational hands containing 5 spades. For the rest we pretty much play what we consider "standard". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 There is vigorous debate as to whether xfers are worth it playing Weak NTs.(if opening a weak 1N opposite a passed hand they are especially suspect) For the Mini AKA Kamikaze NT, xfers are definitely not good. "Double Barrelled" AKA "2Way" Stayman is preferred by many where xfers are not liked. [ADVERTISEMENT]Condensed Transfers after a weak NT: http://www.geocities.com/gerben47/bridge/weaknt.html Coming to a Bridge World magazine near you (accepted mid-2006, published end-2007?)[/ADVERTISEMENT] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 In my system, a 1N opening has only a two-point range (perhaps two and a few tenths) The idea is that responder usually shows his pattern and opener mostly relays. .FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean?1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman?Puppet, denies a five-card majorNo, opener always rebids 2♦, even with a five-card major. 2) 2♠Balanced game force, with either five spades (so that a rebid after 1N 2♥ 2♠ shows an unbalanced hand, as would a rebid other than 2♠ after 1N 2♦ 2♥) or values for slam. Opener rebids 2N without a spade fit and something else with a spade fit, then completes his pattern if responder reasks. With mere game values over 2N, responder bids 3♦/3♥/3♠/3N with 5(332)/5224/5242/5422. 3) 2NTClub transfer, either 6+ clubs (not 6322 or 7222 if GF) or 10+ club-diamond GF two-suiter, including 4 clubs and 6 diamonds. All 10+club-diamond two-suiters rebid 3♦. 4) 3♣Diamond transfer, 6+ diamonds, 6331 or 7321 (7330, 8221...) if GF (no super-acceptance). 5) 3♦ 6 diamonds and 4 of a major 6) 3♥ 6 clubs and 4 hearts 7) 3♠6 clubs and 4 spades 8) 4♣nothing 9) 4♠ natural, as would be 4♥. 10) 4NT nothing, the 2♠ relay will provide some information. 11) 5NTnothing SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean?4432 or 5m332, no slam. Opener keeps relaying and responder has enough room to show his number of hearts and spades in case of a CTC hand or a 5-3 major fit. (1N 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ 2♠ 2N shows 4 hearts, because responder will have to play a 4-4 heart fit, and there is no need to disclose his remaining pattern; 1N 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ 2♠ 3♣ shows 4 spades without 4 hearts, higher third-round bids by responder show respectively a heart doubleton, a spade doubleton, 3352, 3325.) B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean?5m422 or 6m322, no slam. Opener also keeps relaying. C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers).4-1(0) in the majors D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean?club shortness E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean?diamond shortness F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.)3♥ 31(54), 3♠ 1345, 3N(or more) 1354, barring possible voids. G) to O) Doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 There is vigorous debate as to whether xfers are worth it playing Weak NTs.(if opening a weak 1N opposite a passed hand they are especially suspect) For the Mini AKA Kamikaze NT, xfers are definitely not good. "Double Barrelled" AKA "2Way" Stayman is preferred by many where xfers are not liked. [ADVERTISEMENT]Condensed Transfers after a weak NT: http://www.geocities.com/gerben47/bridge/weaknt.html Coming to a Bridge World magazine near you (accepted mid-2006, published end-2007?)[/ADVERTISEMENT] Interesting. I'm not sure I buy the basic premise that we want the weak NT hand to come down as Dummy? What's the logic behind that idea? One thing I've noticed about Weak NTs vs Strong NTs is that it _appears_ (I've done no formal study on this) the chances of positional guards (Kx., Qxx., QJx., Jxxx., etc) is higher in a weak NT hand than in a strong NT hand.If so, that would seem to argue for making the weak NT hand Declarer as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Here's what I've played over the years: 1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? In a 2/1 setup depends. With Keri, it's a forced relay to 2♦. 2) 2♠Can be a xfer to clubs (likely) or in compressed xfers that I like both minors any strength or clubs. With Keri, a range ask. 3) 2NTTransfer to diamonds (likely) or in compressed xfers a natural invite lacking a major. With Keri, a xfer to clubs.4) 3♣Many applications: Puppet Stayman, both minors weak, diamond xfer.5) 3♦ Have played it as both minors G/F and as a xfer G/F showing 1-3-(54) shape.6) 3♥ Majors invite or 1-3-(54) or 3-1-(54).7) 3♠Majors G/F 5-5 or 3-1-(54) or minor balanced slam try (x-x-4-4).8) 4♣Either the baby food convention or South African Texas xfer to hearts or Yellow Rose of Texas (never ever came up).9) 4♠ Natural to play or minor balanced slam try (x-x-4-4). SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean?Weak variant to play, both majors. In Keri, an invite in hearts, 4+ cards. B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean?Natural invite with five spades or invite with both majors. Keri: like above in 2a, with spades. C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers).Invite, may or may not show major depending. Keri: G/F, asking. D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean?G/F, showing 5+ clubs with side major. E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean?Like above in 2D. F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.)Yep, Smolen with me. G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean?Natural invite with five spades. H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean?Natural invite. I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean?Clubs and the other major, g/f J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean?Like 2I. K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean?Splinter or artificial slam try. L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean?Splinter or fit jump or start of any slam try or the baby food convention. M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?)Splinter or fit jump.N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?)If a spade xfer, either a splinter or fit jump. For hearts, RKC. O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean?Quantitative. Have never played it as keycard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm also not sure what the point of this is, but here is what I play with Arend: Han:Thank you for responding. There were four purposes of this survey along with my own curiosity and seeking ideas: 1) to demonstrate the obvious, that there are a lot of creative players out there who have developed their own response structures (as opposed to whatever standard is); 2) to see how many of you play 4-suit transfers (with or without pre-acceptance a la BBO-advanced - not many), 3) to see how many of you play Stayman followed by 3m as the weak 4-6 (4M-6m - admittedly more of an issue at MatchPoints, but the bid used to be virtually standard when and where I used to play live), and 4) to find out how various people make slam invitations in a major after Stayman and a 2M response (i.e. when responder has that in-betweener type of hand where you're not sure whether or not it is safe to go beyond 4M and want to know if opener is min or max or fitting well). There were a few other relatively common sequences or bids that I was interested in. Although this sample is relatively limited, I am impressed by the great variety of interpretations of bids and sequences that one might anticipate to be relatively basic. Look at the variety of interpretations of some of the initial responses to 1NT. So, I wish to thank all of you who took the time and effort to respond to this "little" survey. I have been reconsidering the response structures that I play and looking for viable alternatives. You all have provided a lot of valuable ideas: my sincerest thanks! DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 What follows are a lot of questions regarding how you play your initial responses to Partner's 1NT opening, and how you play various rebids by responder. I learned the hard way that I can't put these questions in a poll format unless each question constitutes a separate poll. Your responses to many of the questions might be wtp? That's OK. This is not a contest to see which bids or methods are "better" than others. Rather, I am curious about how consistent some answers might be, and where there are differences. Please assume that you are playing some variation of Stayman and some variation of initial transfer responses. If you prefer some other structure such Keri, please answer as though you were playing stayman with transfers. If you play different structures with different partners, please give your preferred interpretation of the bids or bidding sequences. Please also preface your responses with an indication of the hcp range that you play for 1NT openers. For the purpose of this survey, please assume that the opps are passing throughout the bidding. Also: for each question, please first give your answer if the format is imps or imp teams, and your second answer assuming that you are playing Match Points (MP) or Board-a-Match (BAM). As always, i appreciate your taking the time to answer these "simple" questions. I apologize for the length of the survey. DHL FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS: Partner opens 1NT. The way you play, what do the following responses mean?1) 2♣ - do you play Garbage Stayman? Yes 2) 2♠ Transfer to ♣ or slam with both minors 3) 2NT Transfer to ♦ or sign off with both minors 4) 3♣ 55+ ♣+♥, GF 5) 3♦ 55+ ♦+♠, GF 6) 3♥ 55+ ♦+♥, GF 7) 3♠ 55+ ♣+♠, GF 8) 4♣ 55+ ♥+♠, to play 4♥ or 4♠ 9) 4♠ 55+ ♣+♦, to play 5♣ or 5♦ 10) 4NT Quant 11) 5NT Invite for a grand. For the time being, we'll omit sequences that start 1NT - 5 of any suit. SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS: For this set of questions, assume that the bidding has started 1NT- 2♣. I will provide opener's rebid and then ask you for the meaning of Responder's rebid.A) Opener rebids 2♦, what does responder's rebid of 2♥ mean? weak with both majors B ) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? Invitational, 5(+) ♠ + 4♥ C) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? INV to 3NT(so far I anticipate fairly consistent answers). D) Opener rebids 2♦: what does a 3♣ rebid by responder mean? Asking for distribution E) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? This bid is idle! F) Opener rebids 2♦: what does responder's rebid of 3♥ or 3♠ mean? (Anticipate a lot of Smolen answers here.) No Smolen. Just natural GF 5 card suits. I think GF Smolen is a bad convention. Just my humble opinion. Invitational Smolen has its merits, but doesn't fit in the system. G) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2♠ mean? INV w 4♠ H) Opener rebids 2♥: what does responder's rebid of 2NT mean? INV, not 4♠ I) Opener rebids 2 of a Major (2M): what does responder's rebid of 3♣ mean? Distribution ask J) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3♦ mean? Confirming a fit, either asking if 3NT might be better anyway or the start of a slam investigation. K) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 3 OM (other major) mean? Splinter. (I know that 3♥ over 2♠ isn't a jump.) L) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♣ mean? Splinter M) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4♦ mean. (does it exist?) Splinter N) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4 OM (other major) mean?(does it exist?)Doesn't exist, but it could be exclusion O) Opener rebids 2M: what does responder's rebid of 4NT mean? Quantitatitve with 4 in other major. Thank You Very Much to any and all who responded to this survey, whether you answered all or just some of the questions. DHLThe answers are in the quote, Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 If you want some more food for thought, I recommend Danny Kleinman's _The NT Zone_ I have some notes on a really "out there" 1N response structure somewhere that doesn't even use Stayman. I'll see if I can find them for amusement value if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I only discussed system to that level of details with one p and with him a play a crazzy system (Borring Club) that doesn't have a natural 1NT opening. With pick-up pds, I'd prefer something that reduces the risk of misunderstandings. I dislike transfers because there are all kinds of contested auctions where they may or may not apply. Playing Strong Club, it's worse because I suppose that after1♣-1♦1NTsystem is on, while after1♣-1NTStayman is on but transfers are not, yet I'm not 100% confident that all partners see it that way. 2-way Stayman plus the agreement that Stayman is replaced by the cuebid whenever a cuebid is availble, seems to me to be the most secure agreement if one hasn't got time to discuss many specific auctions. If I were to put a lot of effort into a NT structure to play with a regular p, I'd emphazise concealing declarer's hand. It's an annoying fact that Symmetric Relays does not achieve this unless responder is sure that 3NT is not going to be the end contract, in which case a lot can be infered about responder's hand from the fact that he knew that 3NT wouldnt be the end contract :( Heeman looks good but I admit I didn't look at any other non-mainstream structures, if you tell me that Scandian or Kerri (or whatever) is better, I believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Playing Strong Club, it's worse because I suppose that after1♣-1♦1NTsystem is on, while after1♣-1NTStayman is on but transfers are not, yet I'm not 100% confident that all partners see it that way. 2-way Stayman plus the agreement that Stayman is replaced by the cuebid whenever a cuebid is availble, seems to me to be the most secure agreement if one hasn't got time to discuss many specific auctions. If I were to put a lot of effort into a NT structure to play with a regular p, I'd emphazise concealing declarer's hand. It's an annoying fact that Symmetric Relays does not achieve this unless responder is sure that 3NT is not going to be the end contract, in which case a lot can be infered about responder's hand from the fact that he knew that 3NT wouldnt be the end contract :( Heeman looks good but I admit I didn't look at any other non-mainstream structures, if you tell me that Scandian or Kerri (or whatever) is better, I believe you. Funnily enough, this is an area where Jason and I decided to play systems on over either of these sequences, but there are a couple of differences (obviously!) since the latter start is game forcing. However, we liked the fact that opener could either ask responder his shape by starting with a staymanic 2♣ or could describe his shape by transferring (or making some other systemic call to show various hand types and a minimum strong club opening). After the 2♣ bid, opener could then either fully relay out responder's hand (as obviously garbage stayman, nor various invites were no longer needed) or bid something else (agreeing the suit and making a strong slam try) or raise (showing a minimum strong club opening while agreeing the suit). This gave us all the various options we needed and I found it worked very well. What I liked in particular was the ability to ask or tell and to take control or check with responder. Of course, I wouldn't agree to play such a system unless it was with a regular partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Interesting. I'm not sure I buy the basic premise that we want the weak NT hand to come down as Dummy? What's the logic behind that idea? Normal bridge logic says that the strong hand should be declarer for various reasons (lead comes towards this hand, harder for opponents to see what suits to attack, etc.). Playing a weak NT, inv+ sequences mean that opener's strength is smaller or at most slightly larger than responder's. This would only prove that it doesn't matter who is declarer. In addition responder's hand has many more possible distributions and HCP ranges than the opening hand. We often have sequences like: 1N - 2♦ (asks 2-card major) - 2♥ (doubleton) - 4♠ - P Now nothing is known about declarer's hand other than 5♠ (usually exactly 5). Could be 5332, but could be 5521. Strength? Could be as light as 10 HCP with shape, or as much as 17. The corresponding sequence playing transfers would be: 1NT - 2♥ - 2♠ - 3something - 4♠. Now declarer's strength is well-known and the shape roughly known. Much easier for the defense to set goals (play to reduce overtricks, or try to beat it?) and to find the best line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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