whats your bid

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=s742hqtdakqt3c865]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  1♣    1♠    2♦

 2♠    3♣    Pass  ?

 

........................................................................................................................

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=s742hqtdakqt3c865]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♦    1NT   Pass  2♦

 Pass  2♥    Pass  ?

[foo]

pass 3♣ with the 1st. Your ♥Q may very well be useless.

 

raise 2♥ to 3♥ with the 2nd.

You have 7 HCP outside of ♥'s + 3 Dummy Points if We have an 8+ card fit= 10 Dummy Points.

The bidding favors Us having a ♥ fit (less ♦'s in Opener's hand means more room for ♥'s.)

[jtfanclub]

raise 2♥ to 3♥ with the 2nd.

You have 7 HCP outside of ♥'s + 3 Dummy Points if We have an 8+ card fit= 10 Dummy Points.

The bidding favors Us having a ♥ fit (less ♦'s in Opener's hand means more room for ♥'s.)

blech.

 

First off, I don't believe for a moment that we're favored to have a heart fit. Partner could easily have 4 or even 5 diamonds. I have one, even if opener has 5 that leaves 7 between partner and RHO. If RHO had 4+ diamonds, he might have bid them.

 

Second of all, if I say 3♥, partner will take me for 6. I don't see why I'd lie to him.

 

I think my choices are pass and 2NT. Since the points are under partner, I'll try 2NT.

 

Not an expert opinion, since I'm not an expert. Sorry.

[kenrexford]

On the first, I'd bid 3♦, which may well be an overbid. But, my failure to open 2♦ (or 1♦ for that matter) makes it implausible that I have six diamonds and a good hand. This should be a COV bid, club support, and insufficient spade values to bid 3♠. I'm not discounting the value of the heart Queen at all. Also, there is the bonus of a small inference that my clubs suck, from my failure to bid 3♦ earlier; at least I can claim that later at the bar.

 

On the second, I'd bid 2♠. Admittedly, this would be conventional as I play it, simply showing an unbalanced game invite with five hearts; partner's 2NT would ask for the suit. If I was not playing that. I'd still bid 2♠. If my tactical choice did not pay off, maybe 2♠ will be a fine final contract (or a funny 3-3 contract that I somehow seem to make a lot). If partner bids 3♠, I'll correct to 3NT. If partner bids 4♠, that should be the right contract.

 

[EDIT -- DAMN! CAUGHT AGAIN BY B/I. FORGET ALL THAT!!!]

[jdonn]

First hand I like 4♣. We could make game, but unless partner has solid clubs and a spade stopper it is probably not 3NT, and I find that fairly unlikely. Plus if I bid 3♠ to look for that and partner couldn't bid 3NT, I think we would be guessing after that.

 

Second hand, 2NT. Sometimes the answer is right in front of your nose. Foo, if partner has a heart fit then, shocker, he can go back to hearts! It's true we have a singleton diamonds but it's the jack which combines well with certain diamond holdings of partner's, like ATx, KTx, KQx(x), etc.

[foo]

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.

That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

 

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

 

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s. In NT you are All Done.

[kenrexford]

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.

That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

 

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

 

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s. In NT you are All Done.

Since when does an invite of a 1NT overcall require 9+?

 

First of all, most folks play that a 1NT overcall is stronger by a smidge than a 1NT opening, 15-18 being a common range. Not my range, but a common one.

 

Further, isolation of strength behind strength elevates trick-taking capacity in situations like this.

 

As a simple "proof," give partner a typical hand that he might have, something like:

 

♠AQxx ♥Ax ♦A10x ♣Qxxx

 

Whereas a free auction makes this a lousy game, needing cooperation in diamonds, clubs, and spades, this looks like a fairly good game contextually. Of the 16 missing points, Declarer's RHO will have at least 2/3 of the points, and perhaps more. "All the stuff you need" will be there more often.

[jdonn]

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.

That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

 

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

 

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s.  In NT you are All Done.

lol. This hand is closer to a 3nt bid opposite a 1NT overcall than it is to being less than an invite. The overcall has a higher range than the opening, and is better positioned. Please invite with your 9 counts, you can't be too careful. (that was sarcasm, just to be clear)

 

Out of curiosity, do you open 4♥ on five card suits because more often than not you have a heart fit, or do you open 1♥ and actually let the member of the partnership who knows if there is a fit decide whether there is one or not?

[foo]

You can't have it both ways People.

 

=if= Your 1N Overcalls are 16-18, =then= you can invite in NT with 8 HCP + a 5card suit.

 

=if= Your 1N Overcalls are usually 15-17 and include soft or flawed 18's (the more usual modern practice) =then= you need exceptional 8's or 9+ HCP to invite in NT.

 

♠ 432 ♥ QJ864 ♦ J ♣ AT86

Has =7= working HCP. The only way this hand can be considered Invitational is in the presence of a trump suit.

If this hand is put down as Dummy in NT, it is very possible that Neither the ♦J nor at least 1 of the ♥ honors will take any tricks (the lead goes through this hand and into the strong defending hand.).

[helene_t]

1: 3♠, I think 3♣ should be forcing although it might not be so in "standard".

 

2: What strange methods am I playing? Did 2♦ show hearts? I don't like that. Anyway, 2N now, or maybe pass, depending on the exact range for 1NT.

[Guest Jlall]

hand 1 depends on your agreements, I have always found it silly to play 3C as NF but I believe that is standard (not sure though). If it is NF I will pass, if it's forcing I'll try 3S.

 

hand 2 I would bid 3C (nat GF). Close between that and 2N. 3N is a possibility too but partner will pass this too often with 3 hearts when it's wrong I think. This is quite possibly a reflection of my 1N overcall style (very often will X instead of 1N with 15 counts) as well as my inviting style opposite 1N overcalls (I recently stayman then 2Ned with xx Qxxx xx AT9xx on this auction) which basically means I expect my partners to reject the invite with a lot of 16 counts and (almost) all 15s.

 

edit: lol, just read foos comments, glad to see we are in synch as usual, all I will say is I am very optimistic about my DJ if we get to NT.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 3S, asking for a spade stopper, the 3 card support

makes it more or less madatory that I make another

try towards game, over 4C it is a toss up between

pass and 5C, ... it would not be the first time I go -1

 

#2 Pass, partner did not super accept, so chances are great,

that you dont have game

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: #1 I play 3C as NF, and I agree with Jdonn, over 4C from

partner you are guessing, so make up your mind now,

what you bid

[SoTired]

1: 4C, not 3S. Move one of the diam honors to clubs and 3S looks more attractive, but not with 3 small clubs.

 

2: 2N. 8 with 5-card suit = invite. ♦J IS WORKING in this auction. Every card is working and I have a 2nd suit with 2 honors that might come in.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

2: 2N. 8 with 5-card suit = invite. ♦J IS WORKING in this auction. Every card is working and I have a 2nd suit with 2 honors that might come in.

The jack of diamonds may be a working card,

or not, but hopefully we agree, that there are

a lots of hands out there with 8HCP outs which

in comparison are better.

 

It most likely boils down, how weak can 1NT be,

for me it is the same as a 1NT opener, some play

it stronger. Facing a 1NT opener, I may invite

and or not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Apollo81]

1. pass

2. 2NT

 

re #2: I think you can GF with the right 8 counts in this auction, but this hand isn't one of them

[Walddk]

2: What strange methods am I playing? Did 2♦ show hearts? I don't like that.

What's so strange about that? Isn't it normal that system is on after a 1NT overcall and no interference by RHO?

 

Roland

[whereagles]

1. 3♠

2. 2NT

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=e&v=e&n=skqt95h9764d9742c&w=sa8haj2d85caqj972&e=s742hqtdakqt3c865&s=sj63hk853dj6ckt43]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♣    1♠    2♦    2♠

 3♣    Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.

 

 

........................................................................................................................

 

[hv=d=e&v=e&n=skqt95h9764d9742c&w=sa8haj2d85caqj972&e=s742hqtdakqt3c865&s=sj63hk853dj6ckt43]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  1♦

 1NT   Pass  2♦!   Pass

 2♥    Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

 

here we won 1.7 imps even I pass 2h and my pard made 4h.

 

Thank you all

[jtfanclub]

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.

 

Everything is sitting right, the people who opened 1NT with your partner's hand (or didn't get an overcall) got lucky this time. Congratulations to them. Next time the kings will be where they belong and 3NT goes down 1.

[foo]

W should bid 3N (or 4♣ looking to play 5m) on Hand 1. We have 27 HCP between Us and Game rates to make

 

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.

4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.

You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

[P_Marlowe]

Dealer: East Vul: EW Scoring: IMP ♠ KQT95 ♥ 9764 ♦ 9742 ♣ [space] ♠ A8 ♥ AJ2 ♦ 85 ♣ AQJ972 ♠ 742 ♥ QT ♦ AKQT3 ♣ 865 ♠ J63 ♥ K853 ♦ J6 ♣ KT43  

 

West  North East  South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♣    1♠    2♦    2♠

 3♣    Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.

 

<snip>

Hi,

 

the main problem is, that your partnership

had no agreement about the strength of 3C.

 

Partner holding 16HCP opposite a forcing 2D

response believed (?!) 3C forcing, if he believed

it nonforcing, than he should look for a different

call, you did believe that it was non forcing and

choose pass.

 

Take the sequence and discuss it, forget the result,

just take the lesson.

 

This is nothing to decide for the panel, the panel

can only show you the options, which option your

partnership chooses is more or less irrelevant.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

Partner holding 16HCP opposite a forcing 2D

response believed (?!) 3C forcing, if he believed

it nonforcing, than he should look for a different

call, you did believe that it was non forcing and

choose pass.

It is possible you're right.

 

It is also possible that your partner felt stuck. He may have felt No Trump didn't look good: you have implied that you have no spade stopper, and the overcaller (assuming it shows 8+ hcp) is an odds on favorite to have the king of clubs.

 

Even if 3 clubs is nonforcing, I would be tempted to use it with the West hand, because if East is minimum game is hardly a sure thing.

[foo]

Even if 3♣ is nonforcing, I would be tempted to use it with the West hand, because if East is minimum game is hardly a sure thing.

You are looking at 16 HCP including 3 A's and a nice 6 card suit.

♠ A8 ♥ AJ2 ♦ 85 ♣ AQJ972

is a hand we teach novices to evaluate at 18 Playing Points.

Responder has shown 10+ HCP and a 5+ card suit.

 

...and you have doubts We belong in game?

 

3♣ nf is an underbid.

[vuroth]

Does 2♦ still show 10 HCP in competition? For some reason, I had it in my head that it was a free bid, and only showed 8+....

[jtfanclub]

...and you have doubts We belong in game?

Um, yeah. Isn't that what I just said?

 

Did they also teach you that it's a lot tougher to make 11 tricks than 10 or 9?

 

3NT is very, very marginal here. Not finding it isn't a reason to be upset. It's a reason to congratulate North on his sucessful 5 hcp overcall. If North had

 

KQT95

97

42

KT43

 

which actually looks more like a 1 spade overcall, would you be talking about how to bid it to avoid game?

 

Responder has shown 10+ HCP and a 5+ card suit.

 

Responder is a passed hand, which makes it nonforcing. If she wants to bid 2♦ with 8 or 9 I certainly don't have a problem with it.

 

3♣ nf is an underbid.

 

Sure it is. But the auction is indicating dangers, and if you choose to be cautious, so be it. I'm not saying that I would or wouldn't bid 3♣ myself, but I don't think it's unreasonable.