Pros playing with Clients

[awm]

Here I am mostly referring to the "lower tier" of professional players, those who often play with a pretty weak client in a local club game or tournament. For a long time I assumed that in order to make money this way, the pro would have to be a good partner -- after all, while these pros are good players they usually have local competitors who are comparable card players, and one would think the clients would migrate towards the most polite and friendly option. But my empirical observations of this caliber of pro hasn't quite matched my intuition...

 

Anyways, I'm curious as to what other people have observed.

[jtfanclub]

Anyways, I'm curious as to what other people have observed.

Having witnessed some of this in Vegas, they seemed considerably less polite than normal.

 

On the other hand, it was usually obvious that the person in question was a pro because is partner was so incredibly incompetent.

 

So, in defense of the pros....

 

-If they were polite, and didn't point things out, I probably wouldn't have realized they were pros.

 

-If I was forced to play with these clients, I'd probably get fairly heated too.

[mike777]

I was quite surprised to hear an old buddy relate playing against a pro in the Boston area KO this past week. The pro berated the TD and got on his partner/clients case. This pro is WC player and one I have never met. I was quite shocked to hear this story. In fact I was under the impression from magazine articles that he was quite a gentleman.

 

OTOH I recall several Nat directors telling me the worst/meanest player at the table

is one of my all time bridge heroes a multi WC player. He was always so nice to me in person at the table and at home. :)

[BebopKid]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone hiring a local pro, and we have 3 people at our club with 20000+ master points.

[Guest Jlall]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone hiring a local pro, and we have 3 people at our club with 20000+ master points.

You should go to one of the 3 main clubs in NY, you will probably see 5 pro/client pairs on any given day.

[Apollo81]

Out of the three "local pros" I know of in my area (DC) 2 are very good partners and 1 is very poor. I don't see the latter much around anymore.

[pclayton]

I cant think of any that I know that are impolite. One around here is a whiner a lot of the time. Several others are generally pretty nice but I dont consider them outgoing either. They keep a pretty low profile but for some reason only talk when their client makes an error.

 

I always get a kick out of it when the pro screws up. They usually blame the client for whatever afterward. Its pretty funny. if I know them, I''ll sometimes take the client aside and explain how its not really their fault.

 

Sometimes I think being a pro would be just a really crappy existence unless I had clients I really liked being around and wanted to learn. e. -

[cherdano]

I have a different intuition. People are friendly in their job if they are happy with their job.

[Fluffy]

Everybody is different, I am a pro on a local, but my client will blame herself even when she did nothing or we have a top, there is no point on yelling at her, but I know my disapointment face when she makes big mistakes (those who ruin my plans) is worse than saying anything.

 

Wassik is the best pro in Spain, he will yell at his partner for very thin mistake when he think's he has a chance of winning, he cannot give up a single option of winning, even if its just 10€ price.

 

I know Wassik's clients are learning more than anyone else's, I've heard one saying that she didn't return a ♥ because she was afraid of Wassik yelling at her later for that :). Some clients don't mind at all a bit of rudeness in order to win (most of them wanna win, not learn, but learning helps winning later).

[helene_t]

I don't think there's a single pro in the Netherlands. There is a handful of pro poker players, two of our top pairs sometimes play in the Nationals with American sponsors, and Berry Westra makes a living of Bridge, though mainly by writing books and putting his name on software, I think.

 

Don't know why. The BF has some 150,000 members and the kind of adds in the BF magazine suggests that some of them have a lot of money.

[mike777]

I don't think there's a single pro in the Netherlands. There is a handful of pro poker players, two of our top pairs sometimes play in the Nationals with American sponsors, and Berry Westra makes a living of Bridge, though mainly by writing books and putting his name on software, I think.

 

Don't know why. The BF has some 150,000 members and the kind of adds in the BF magazine suggests that some of them have a lot of money.

none? team orange or whatever?

 

team orange is great.

 

needless to say the color orange is hated in certain circles..but :)

[Gerben42]

none? team orange or whatever?

team orange is great.

needless to say the color orange is hated in certain circles..but 

 

The players of Team Orange have been bought free from their regular jobs for 1 day a week. The other 4 days they have a regular job.

 

Sjoert Brink used to be a pro player in London for a while but he gave up on that.

[paulg]

I don't think there's a single pro in the Netherlands. There is a handful of pro poker players, two of our top pairs sometimes play in the Nationals with American sponsors, and Berry Westra makes a living of Bridge, though mainly by writing books and putting his name on software, I think.

 

Don't know why. The BF has some 150,000 members and the kind of adds in the BF magazine suggests that some of them have a lot of money.

We see a three or four of the top Dutch players in the better English tournaments. I'd consider them pros even though they may have other careers.

 

The concept of 'local pro' is not well known in the UK, as far as I know, but I guess it may exist in a couple of the biggest cities.

 

I also find the idea of Flight B/Flight C pros mind-boggling.

[han]

My experience with the pros that played in the Detroit area a couple of years ago is that most of them were more polite than the average player. Perhaps surprising because some of their partners were truly horrific. Also, most were quite willing to answer any questions I might have.

[Gerben42]

Perhaps surprising because some of their partners were truly horrific

 

This makes sense because I would guess this is one reason why some players play with sponsors - they cannot find partners the normal way. Two other reasons are of course to learn and to win.

[Fluffy]

I am very willing to explain aything to people at my local, but I cannot do in front of my client, she says that they have to pay if they want my advice :(

 

I try to be polite, but when opponents ask me after a missunderstandings I often reply: 'depends on your methods/agreements' but I know they don't have any of them

[Guest Jlall]

I am very willing to explain aything to people at my local, but I cannot do in front of my client, she says that they have to pay if they want my advice :)

 

I try to be polite, but when opponents ask me after a missunderstandings I often reply: 'depends on your methods/agreements' but I know they don't have any of them

lol, funny, I've had the exact same problem with some clients (they get pissed if i answer questions), but you can't really say "sorry I won't answer your question" so I say the same thing "it is just a style thing" or "depends on your agreements" or "it's close, could go either way." That way everyones happy lol.

[hotShot]

He will be more polite to a client than to a fellow pro.

[Tola18]

I am very willing to explain aything to people at my local, but I cannot do in front of my client, she says that they have to pay if they want my advice :)

 

I try to be polite, ....

One possible answer to this client is "Look. You do want me as your partner because Im known to be a nice, easygoing, knowleable guy. You surely dont want people say: he ends up being that nice guy only because Im playing with you? " :)

 

But there is still some rationale in what the client says. You are probably hired not only as a strong partner. You are probably hired also as a playing coach. And thus partner is paying for your time. That time and that concentration should be used on teaching the client, not the opponents...

 

I suppose it can be said, teaching the opps on the same board is ALSO teaching the client... Simply encourage the client to participate in these spontaneous discussions!

It will do much good for the clients bridge-development.

And so the client will also be known to be a nice guy and have easier to get nice partners.

 

But giving them advices on totally different boards NOT played by the client could of course be unproductive. Unless these advices could be useful for partner too.

 

In summary: Mention these your strategies to your client before the play: you being the playing coach try to use EVERY given opportunity which you understand is useful for your client. :)

[helene_t]

For a long time I assumed that in order to make money this way, the pro would have to be a good partner -- after all, while these pros are good players they usually have local competitors who are comparable card players, and one would think the clients would migrate towards the most polite and friendly option. But my empirical observations of this caliber of pro hasn't quite matched my intuition...

I donno about bridge (as said we don't have pros here in NL) but in other areas there are masochistic students who prefer teachers who insult them. I'm one of those students. When I take art classes or sports classes, for example, I really hate those teachers who keep smiling and saying I do all fine. Because I know I suck and I know that if they paied attention they would know that I suck, and they should have the guts to telling me that I suck.

[Rossoneri]

Well, locally I only see perhaps one or two such "pros" playing with clients.

 

One can be fairly rude at times, but generally I would think he's okay.

 

The other is quite polite, even after his partner handed +850 to my pair instead of gaining 200 for their side. (I was in 5♥X)

[ArcLight]

For a long time I assumed that in order to make money this way, the pro would have to be a good partner -- after all, while these pros are good players they usually have local competitors who are comparable card players, and one would think the clients would migrate towards the most polite and friendly option. But my empirical observations of this caliber of pro hasn't quite matched my intuition...

I donno about bridge (as said we don't have pros here in NL) but in other areas there are masochistic students who prefer teachers who insult them. I'm one of those students. When I take art classes or sports classes, for example, I really hate those teachers who keep smiling and saying I do all fine. Because I know I suck and I know that if they paied attention they would know that I suck, and they should have the guts to telling me that I suck.

I get nothing out of "You are playing so well".

But "You butchered that" wouldn't help my concentration either :D

 

How about this:

 

"There was a better way of playing that.

From the bidding, why didn't West bid with all those HCP? They must have a had a trump stack. So knowing that how do you play? ..."

"Very good. Now keep that in mind for next time :) "

 

 

Its not that hard to be polite and also give criticism if the student wants to learn (rather than just win some event).

[SoTired]

I think berating partner or other impoliteness (or being polite and cheerful) is a personality feature. It is completely separate from a player's playing level. I have seen total fish blaming their partner for their own mistake. I have seen a WC pro doing the same thing.

 

Although I would expect that a pro would try to be more polite to his/her client in order to get repeat business, in practice in the heat of battle, a person's true personality is hard to suppress.

 

A common trait that I have seen among pros is how they rank other players/pros. Anyone who is a lesser player than them (even other pros) are "terrible." They seem to reserve their respect and awe of other WC players based on accomplishment rather than ability.

[helene_t]

They seem to reserve their respect and awe of other WC players based on accomplishment rather than ability.

Like all those who think I'm a bad player just because I always lose. Ridicolous. :D

[helene_t]

Yesterday I went to a meeting for bridge teachers. We played a tourney as well. Many played with a much weaker partner, often the spouse. Some partnerships consisted of two decent players, could be two teachers. I played with a first-year student, donno how many did that.

 

I would say that those semi-professional bridge teachers were generally much more polite than average players. Maybe they did their best to behave now that they were being watched by so many fellow bridge teachers.