Missed game, who to blame?

[cnszsun]

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sj8xh108xxdakjxcxx&s=sak109xhj9dxxcakxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP

ps-ps-1♠-ps

2♠-ps-3♣-X

3♦-X-3♠-AP[/hv]

 

We play natural suit game try.

Also, another question, is north's hand close to drury 2c?

[ArcLight]

It comes down to what your partnership has agreed as its minimum values for a accepting a help suit game try.

 

Is it :

xx (2 lsoers)

Qx (something better than 2 losers)

A/K x (one of the top 2 or 3 honors)?

 

If its xx, then responder can bid game.

 

With the counter suit game try of 3♦, I assume opener feared 1 club loser, and 2 heart losers, so the next question is:

 

What is the partnership agreement on counter suit game tries?

 

AKxx

AQJxx

KQJ

(1 loser, no losers if a finesse is working)

 

Rather than blame anyone, Id suggest the partnership look at 2 issues:

 

1 - what is the miniumum accept for a game try

2- what does a counter suit try show

 

Once you reach an agreement, you are ready for future problems.

Don't worry about missing a game if your agreements are not firm. Fix the basic problem (uncertainty) instead.

[skjaeran]

Having Drury on my CC, I'd have an easy pass over a 2♠ raise.

 

Since that doesn't seem to be on, I'd squeeze out a game try with this hand, but I'd rather bid 2NT (general game try) than 3♣. Over 2NT I'd raise to game with the north hand, with a doubleton and this strong ♦-holding.

[Fluffy]

I don't like 3♦ nor 3♠, Doubleton on partner's suit is not that bad as they both though. North should use the extra space the double gave him to pass and let the opener explain a bit more.

 

South should have done exactly the same.

 

North has more blame, once south has taken the close to overbid 3♣ trial he cannot be blamed.

[han]

To me the north hand is close to drury but clearly not good enough. However, when partner makes a game try north should certainly accept (I'd say only reject if partner makes a short suit gametry in diamonds).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 ignoring the 3rd seat opener: North.

What does a max. raise to 2S look like, if North

does not hold one?

Just accept. 3D is ok, if you intended it as

advanced cue in case opener is looking for more.

 

#2 The Nort hand is certainly not strong enough to send

a message "I have inv. values", i.e. no this is not a hand

for drury.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pbleighton]

North needs to accept.

 

His hand isn't quite good enough for a Drury 2C.

 

Peter

[cherdano]

This has nothing to do with partnership agreements, North is very much a maximum for 2♠, xx is of some help, so he has to bid game. The only question is whether to jump to 4♠ or to bid 3♦, catering for a slam try.

[gwnn]

North has an über hand for single raise. His next call should be 4♠ whatever partner bids. (except pass)

 

I see the merit of bidding 3♦ but I'm not as sophisticated as Arend and I'd never do that at the table (I reach enough bad slams as it is).

[inquiry]

South.

 

South issued a game try, north has a hand not to be sad about.

 

OVer 3♣-X, north could have passed, could have bid 3♠, or could have bid 3♦/3♥. HE could also jump to 4♠.

 

Failure to jump to 4♠ conveys he is not max (lets say 25 ZAR is max.. this on eis 23 counting fit).

 

Failure to bid 3♠ says he is not minimum (what ever that is).

 

So the question becomes what is the difference between 3♦ and pass (both show less than max but more than min). Either way, passing the double or bidding 3♦ shows game interest, with 3♦ showing concentrated values. South has enough to bid game after that.

[gwnn]

I think 25 ZAR points are strong enough to drury.

[inquiry]

I think 25 ZAR points are strong enough to drury.

With 25 ZAR and 4 spades you do not pass.... but 25 fitting zar is fine for drury, since 3rd seat may not be close to 25 zars itself.

[Apollo81]

100% North; his hand is just a hair shy of Drury

[mike777]

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sj8xh108xxdakjxcxx&s=sak109xhj9dxxcakxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP

ps-ps-1♠-ps

2♠-ps-3♣-X

3♦-X-3♠-AP[/hv]

 

We play natural suit game try.

Also, another question, is north's hand close to drury 2c?

100% south the bidding was great, super, up until South forgot to bid 4s over 3d.

[jdonn]

South bid a lot as it was. North 1000000% has to make sure of reaching game after the 3♣ bid. It doesn't matter much to me how he gets there, but north sure as heck has to get there by the end.