What went wrong?

[helene_t]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=skxhqxdakjxcakjtx&e=sqxxxxhkxxxdxxxcx]266|100|Scoring: XIMP

1♣-1♠

2♦-2♠

4NT-5♣

6♣-pass-(X)

pass-pass[/hv]

2/1, strong jumpshifts, RKC3041, no further agreements relevant to this auction.

 

Would you open 2N as West? Or 1♦? or 2♣, rebidding 2N?

 

I suppose the 2♦ reverse is obvious given the choice of opening.

What about 2♠ by E? Is 2N more, or less, likely to create misunderstandings? Would 2♠ be your choice?

 

Is 4N RKC for spades? Is 6♣ a proposal or does E have to pass?

[hrothgar]

I would open 1♣ and reverse into Diamonds, however, I typically favor sound reverses.

 

I can't imagine anyone advocating a 2NT opening with the West hand. There is (some) merit to deciding to treat this as a balanced hand. You have positional stoppers in both Spades and Hearts, so its attractive to "hog" the NT bid. However, this hand looks too strong for a 2NT opening. If I were to treat this hand as balanced, I'd open 2♣, intending to rebid 2NT.

 

The choice of rebidding 2♠ or 2NT is a matter of agreement. However, i think that you have more important things to worry about. The decision to declare 6♣ seems incomprehensible.

 

1. In theory, you know that you're off 2 Aces

2. You have a 5 card club suit and no evidence of a fit

[kenrexford]

1♣: Seems right. 2NT is plausible, but the inability to show 5-5 in the majors below 3NT after that start causes some problems. A 1-minor opening can be this strong (even stronger, barely).

 

1♠: Obvious.

 

2♦: Obvious

 

2♠: Not my choice, because of system. I'd like 2♥ as a bust, if available, hoping as an aside for a 2♠ delayed raise, which would be nice. But, perhaps 2♠ was systemically forced.

 

4NT: Lost mind. Just bizarre, and very much so.

 

5♣: Accurate.

 

6♣: It is good to continue one's insanity. Why fight it? Embrace the madness, I say.

 

For extra credit, it appears that Responder doubled 6♣. This may be a typo or layout problem, but I choose to believe that Responder actually doubled 6♣. That would be the money call, IMO. Very astute!

[helene_t]

Tx, Richard. I was worying if 2♥ would be FSF and 2N would be Lebehnsohl, so I bid 2♠ intending to pass any non-forcing bid by p. (I would have bid 3N over 3♦ since I wouldn't know if 3♦ was forcing and besides 3N might be as playable as 3♦).

 

The thing I found the most difficult was W's third bid after 2♠. It would be nice if 3♥ was FSF but it probably isn't. What would you bid? 3N with only half a heart stopper seems not ideal but if 3N is the right spot, someone has to bid. Besides, 3♦ would overstate the shape, I thought.

[gwnn]

I have to confess I'd open 2NT, the non-scientific simplistic bid.

 

I think 2♠ is simple and good. It's not like opener will have 4 hearts. If he does, we should find out.

 

4NT is just bollocks. If 2NT is non-scientific, 4NT is a prehistoric, no, it's pre-prehistoric bullybidding at its worst. It is probably simple Blacky, though, if you ask me.

 

Poor East has to look for a new partner. :D :)

[pbleighton]

If I were to treat this hand as balanced, I'd open 2♣, intending to rebid 2NT.

 

That's what I would do with this hand.

 

As to the auction, 4NT is overboard. Pd can have a bare minimum, and 5 spades (as here). Id bid 3NT.

 

Peter

[kenrexford]

This auction is much nicer if 2♥ is Ingberman -- now Opener can jump to 3NT and show 2245 pattern with a monster -- perfect.

 

After 2♠, the same solution works almost as well. The slight problem is that Opener is not sure if Responder has five or six spades. If 2♥ was Ingberman, then 2♠ would surely show a sixth spade (for me at least), as you would bid 2♥ if you only had five of them (because 2♥ is below 2♠). Further, after 2♠, Responder might expect a possible 1345.

[helene_t]

Poor East has to look for a new partner. :) :(

Oh no, I still have you, don't I ? :D

[gwnn]

♥

[Rossoneri]

This auction is much nicer if 2♥ is Ingberman -- now Opener can jump to 3NT and show 2245 pattern with a monster -- perfect.

 

After 2♠, the same solution works almost as well. The slight problem is that Opener is not sure if Responder has five or six spades. If 2♥ was Ingberman, then 2♠ would surely show a sixth spade (for me at least), as you would bid 2♥ if you only had five of them (because 2♥ is below 2♠). Further, after 2♠, Responder might expect a possible 1345.

lol, you beat me to mentioning Ingberman.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 No, I open 1C

#2 Yes, 2D

#3 2S is clearly best, the weakest bid East can make

2H would be 4th suit, 2NT whatever (one may

believe it natural, the other artificial, absent further

discussion, you have no real idea)

#4 4NT is for spades, but it is an overbid, how about

3H, asking for further description , responder can

be broke (weak jump shifts are not part of the system,

and sometimes you are broke, even if they were part)

#6 Is to play, ok West could have bid 4C to set up

a forcing auction, but if he holds the King of clubs,

the auction will tell him if partner has AK in spades,

and he may hold all other cues, so 4NT was for spades

and 6C is it

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[whereagles]

Would I open..

- 2NT? Maybe. I don't bother much about opening choice.. they're hardly ever the source of trouble.

- 1♦? Not my style. Wouldn't try it unless I had good agreements on this.

- 2♣ + 2NT? Perhaps, but, as I said, this isn't the major problem.

 

What about 2♠?

- Some play 2♠ shows this hand, others play it as forcing, unlimited. You gotta know where you stand... that's just it.

 

4NT is RKCB?

- Dunno, but I'd be VERY weary of making that bid if there's a chance of misunderstanding. I think a 3♥ bid would be better. If pard bids 3NT now, you can then raise to 4NT which is now obviously an invite.

[mikeh]

The west hand has two flaws for 2N: it is never best to be 5422, and the hand is too strong. It has far more trick-taking potential than a 4432 21 count.

 

So it is either 2♣, intending to rebid 2N, or 1♣, intending to reverse. I am happy with the latter... as with Richard, I am a 'strong' reverser, altho rarely this strong.

 

I believe that using the cheaper of 4th suit or 2N as a negative (technically, not necessarily a negative... all negatives go through this, but not all hands that go through it are negative) is the best way to proceed. In other words, I echo those who espouse a 2♥ rebid by East, but I appreciate that 2♠ was forced, absent this very useful agreement.

 

4N is mind-boggling. But, again, maybe there were systemic concerns.

 

I can understand that West would be a little nervous about 2N if not sure that it is forcing.. I don't think it is, when ingberman unavailable. And 3N, the more obvious choice, is a little committal. 3♠ might be seen as 3=1=4=5 and so on.

 

But while 3N is uncomfortable, I really, truly do NOT understand 4N.

[cherdano]

4N isn't only bad, I really really don't understand why anyone would bid it. I think you can bid 3♥ there, but all of 2N, 3N, 3S, 4S are better than 4N.

[goobers]

In answer to the original title "What went wrong?" I would answer 4NT.

 

Everything else looks normal, you'd reach a normal spot absent the 4NT bid...

[Apollo81]

4NT came from outer space

[Guest Jlall]

On an instructive note I think the west hand made a very common mistake. That is once they have a big hand they overbid it massively because partner bid and...well...they have a big hand.

 

West needs to just show a GF hand opposite a 1 level response and he's done his duty. I think 1C-1S-2D-2S-3H-3N is a good auction.

 

I will be honest though that my style is to bid 2C then 2N with the west hand, yes I know blah blah miss slam, miss superior minor suit games for inferior 3Ns, but the 2C-2N sequence gives very little away about my hand and they will make more bad leads/defenses because of it in my experience.

[skjaeran]

I might have opened 2NT (22-24 in my methods).

I'm used to playing 2♠ as natural and forcing in this sequence.

Agree with Justin that 1♣-1♠-2♦-2♠-3♥-3NT is a good auction.

[mike777]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=skxhqxdakjxcakjtx&e=sqxxxxhkxxxdxxxcx]266|100|Scoring: XIMP

1♣-1♠

2♦-2♠

4NT-5♣

6♣-pass-(X)

pass-pass[/hv]

2/1, strong jumpshifts, RKC3041, no further agreements relevant to this auction.

 

Would you open 2N as West? Or 1♦? or 2♣, rebidding 2N?

 

I suppose the 2♦ reverse is obvious given the choice of opening.

What about 2♠ by E? Is 2N more, or less, likely to create misunderstandings? Would 2♠ be your choice?

 

Is 4N RKC for spades? Is 6♣ a proposal or does E have to pass?

Agree 100% up to 4nt. I assume that was a misclick and opener meant to rebid 3nt at imps.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

I would open the West hand 2NT. wtp? I open 2NT with xx in a side suit so holding Qx and the stated HCP(20-22- is my normal standard range), a 2NT opening is not a major concern.

 

Do you really want partner to bid 1C-1NT with his 5-6HCP hand?

 

Rebidding 2S 'without prior agreement is not my style. Either partner does not have 3 card support for spades 'or' he will support me at his next bid.

 

A toy that I like to use is that bidding 2Ss here asks partner to pass even holding three card support 'without' game forcing values. Why bid higher than 2Ss 'if' you will be passing the 3S invite?

 

Not playing my toy, I use the cheaper bid of 2NT or 4th suit to 'attempt' to sign off.

My choice of bids here would be 2H*. Partner could bid a 'passable' three card spade raise and I would only continue to bid because we are 'Red' at IMPs.

 

A 2S rebid in my 'standard' methods would show a six(+) card suit.

 

4NT suggests that the drugs or alcohol(or a combination of both) suddenly kicked in.

 

Regards,

Robert