Walddk Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 This happened on vugraph earlier today with Sabine Auken (opener) and Zia: 1♥ 4♣* dbl** pass5♠? * Natural** Card showing, typical spades. What is 5♠ now? - 1. Asking for trump quality?- 2. Asking for a club control? Do you have an agreement with your regular partner? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 club control, assuming double showed 4spades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have no agreement with any partner. Of course, I have never previously encountered this sequence! I guess that, when playing with Zia, one can step out with more safety than with most :rolleyes: My guess: AQ10x AKJxx Ax xx or the like: showing great trump and asking for ♣ control. Why? Because I think 5♣ followed by 5♠ would ask about trump quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Apparently, Sabine and Zia didn't have an agreement either. Zia is usually a quick player, but he was in the tank for 4-5 minutes before he .... (did the wrong thing). By the way, what would 4NT and 5♣ have been by opener? One has to to see the 5♠ call in context I think. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 5♠ feels like a great 5=6=0=2 or the like asking for club help. Perhaps this is simplistic and Justin will say 5♠ = a hand too good for 4♠. 4N for me would just be simple blackwood, but some might treat it as a strong 5♦ bid. 5♣ shows a mountain, and the ability to control the auction. I would expect solid hearts or great spades and a club control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 It doesn't seem like there is all that much room for delicate investigation here. If opener's only options are to ask specific questions "how good are your trumps" or "do you have a club control" then there will be a lot of hands where you have no idea what to do and can't ask for help. Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry. But I know a lot of people like to have a couple narrow asking bids and then just punt a slam when none of those asking bids help, rather than having a general opinion ask. Depends on whether you think: (1) partner has a good memory, but bad judgement or (2) partner has good judgement, but a bad memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry. i also play: 4NT = RKC5♣...5♠ = please bid six if you like that seems to handle all the cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I would expect a general slam invitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I would have guessed asking for second or first round control in clubs, agree spades. If opener has club control and hearts and spades, I would expect her to start with 5clubs.With less simply rebid 4H or 4s or pass 4clubs. btw what is 4nt here in an expert pickup partnership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Perhaps this is simplistic and Justin will say 5♠ = a hand too good for 4♠. I love you man, thats EXACTLY what i was going to write lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 In my regular partnerships it is asking if pd has two fast club losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=b&w=s9742hq10daqj972c5&e=sqj863hak6532d6ca]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]1♥ 4♣ dbl pass5♠? Sabine felt she was too good for 4♠ and intended her 5♠ as a general slam try. Zia tanked for 4-5 minutes, consulted the ceiling and floor, couldn't find anything useful and eventually raised to slam. He was hoping that Auken had something like ♠AKQx ♥AKJxxx ♦x ♣xx and all she was looking for was a club control. North holding ♠AK had a feeling that they wouldn't have a better place to play, so he doubled. However, despite this disaster the Emre (Zia) team won comprehensively in this R32 match but later lost in the Round of 16. Russia v RIOLO (Fantoni) will be our quarter-final match on vugraph this morning. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=b&w=s9742hq10daqj972c5&e=sqj863hak6532d6ca]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]1♥ 4♣ dbl pass5♠? Sabine felt she was too good for 4♠ and intended her 5♠ as a general slam try. Zia tanked for 4-5 minutes, consulted the ceiling and floor, couldn't find anything useful and eventually raised to slam. He was hoping that Auken had something like ♠AKQx ♥AKJxxx ♦x ♣xx and all she was looking for was a club control. North holding ♠AK had a feeling that they wouldn't have a better place to play, so he doubled. However, despite this disaster the Emre (Zia) team won comprehensively in this R32 match but later lost in the Round of 16. Russia v RIOLO (Fantoni) will be our quarter-final match on vugraph this morning. Roland I guess bidding 4d was not an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess bidding 4d was not an option? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess bidding 4d was not an option? Nope. over 4c? ok...but why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 You give up on defending 4♣X, and playing in a 4-4 spade fit since partner is almost never good enough for 4♠ over 4♦. And all for what gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry. I would had taken it this way also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess bidding 4d was not an option? Nope. over 4c? ok...but why not? edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I would also have taken 5S as just saying "I'm too good to bid 4S", but in particular it must have at least 5-6 in the majors, as responder hasn't guaranteed 4 spades on the auction. As for do I have an agreement - not for this particular auction as written, but we have a general agreement that strong jumps to 5M in competitive auctions after opposition pre-emptiong are general slam tries unless specifically agreed otherwise. p.s. I don't think 4D over 4C would have been insane given the Q10 of hearts, but double will often end the auction opposite a weak NT-type hand which is probably what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I would also have taken 5S as just saying "I'm too good to bid 4S", but in particular it must have at least 5-6 in the majors, as responder hasn't guaranteed 4 spades on the auction. As for do I have an agreement - not for this particular auction as written, but we have a general agreement that strong jumps to 5M in competitive auctions after opposition pre-emptiong are general slam tries unless specifically agreed otherwise. p.s. I don't think 4D over 4C would have been insane given the Q10 of hearts, but double will often end the auction opposite a weak NT-type hand which is probably what you want. Absolutely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I don't agree, partner's shape with 3 spades has to be 3244, and if it is possible, I bet it is not a shape to play for. Also I even disagree with opening 1♥ with 5♠, I understand (don't agree with them but I think they have a good point) the possible benefits of opening 1m with minor + major, but when you have both majors you will hate to bid spades at next round, no matter the level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I don't agree, partner's shape with 3 spades has to be 3244, and if it is possible, I bet it is not a shape to play for. Also I even disagree with opening 1♥ with 5♠, I understand (don't agree with them but I think they have a good point) the possible benefits of opening 1m with minor + major, but when you have both majors you will hate to bid spades at next round, no matter the level. 1H (4C) ? KQxQxAQJxxxxx What do you do if you don't double? If you systemically open 1S with 5-6 or 5-7 in the majors then all subsequent inferences are different, certainly, but that isn't the normal approach, particularly with a strong major 2-suiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I can bid 4♦ with that hand, doubl is not unreasonable also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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