Will you bid 2nt?

[Edmunte1]

I think 2nt is the worst evil. Do you play any special development after (2M)-2NT?

[whereagles]

Well, most people just play "system on" and I'm no exception :)

[Fluffy]

Random balanced 8 counts will happen more than usual and I'd rather be in 3N than 3H or 3m on those hands.

Random 8 counts rate to lose many spade tricks in 3NT unless partner has ♠A.

[Codo]

Actually, there are a lot more problems with double than simply missing a fourth heart.

 

Your heart suit is not simple three-card, you lack even a helpful honor in hearts.

Your strength in HCP's and in defense is understated when you double, with insufficient avenues to both clarifying the poor hearts and showing the good overall strength.

 

Besides, who needs two spade stoppers here? I may be out there for occasionally overcalling 2NT with a mere bolster, but a full stop works well enough.

 

The upside to doubling is ease in finding the minor contract, admittedly, when 3♣ or 3♦ is the ideal contract.

1. I don´t see why xxx of Heart is worse then AKx. After all, this is the hand which should ruff the spades if there are any ruffs neccesary.

 

2. Yes double does not show the strength in one bid, but pd has many options to show his strength and shape, so the loss is there but not too big.

 

2. In NT you cannot even duck one round of spades. So 2 NT basically hopes to take all tricks before opps can take the lead again. This could work well, but it must not.

Pd must have a long running suit, or the K of Diamonds and the Q of clubs and a HEart stopper and some minor suit length to make 2 (3) NT work. But in this case you will reach 3 NT anyway.

3. if pd has some values, he will bid 3 of a suit and you can still bid 3 NT, so nothing is lost.

[Finch]

I can't get excited about this; either double or 2NT could be right. I'm not passing. I tend to double on this type of hand but can happily live with either.

 

Opposite a non-passed partner I would double. Why? Because the most likely game is certainly 3NT, but it's quite possibly 3NT by partner (just think of Q10x opposite). If partner is not a passed hand, he can have a 12-13 count that's happy to drive game, and we'll reach the right game the right way up.

 

The problem with doubling on the current hand is that partner can't bid a natural 2NT over it. if he could, I would definitely double.

[Apollo81]

I hate both 2NT and double on this hand. 2NT with Kx is just asking for them to duck the first round, win a side entry, and run the suit. Double with xxx hearts and 2 spades is just asking to lose several trump tricks due to spade ruffs/overruffs.

[BebopKid]

I say 2NT is exactly the right bid. Usually...

[foo]

West,Both,IMP,

♠Kx♥xxx♦AQTx♣AKxx

 

After 2 pass, your RHO opens 2♠ in 3rd seat, Is 2N a popular choice now?

As mikeh, ken, and Frances have already noted, 2N is the "book" bid here.

Anything else smacks of masterminding.

 

pd being a passed hand does !not! make it impossible for pd to have 8-11 HCP. And if pd does, We belong in Game. At equal vul, We are going to have to take 2♠ a wee bit more than what is reasonable for it to make up for Us missing a game.

 

In addition, I note that We are Red @ IMPs.

 

We're supposed to be in 34+% games in this situation.

If pd has 5+H and 8+ HCP, 4H could be considerably better than 1/3.

 

Show some backbone and make the book bid.

[awm]

Only passing makes missing a game all that likely here. What does a three-bid show over double playing lebensohl? Seems to me that especially by passed hand this is something like a good 8 to 11. It's not like partner can have a "forcing" hand. So basically the hand that doesn't bid 2NT (leb) is the hand where we bid game.

 

And if we do have game, double followed by partner's 3-bid and a 3NT call normally shows some hand like this (one spade stopper, extra values). Presumably a hand with multiple spade stoppers would either overcall 2NT or 3NT to begin with.

 

I suspect the real problem is going to be the hands where partscore is the limit. If partner has five hearts, it's again unlikely to matter (you reach 3♥ either way). The question is basically:

 

(1) How often will partner have exactly four hearts, and try bidding lebensohl followed by 3♥? How much better off are you in 2NT on these hands?

 

(2) How often will partner have a 4+ card minor which you would reach after double? How much worse are you in 2NT on these hands?

 

(3) How often is partner passing the double for a big plus score?

 

I would rate double as slightly better than 2NT here, but with no strong preference. Pass seems too likely to miss something unless you open virtually all tens (in which case I think pass is clearcut).

[foo]

You have a point. I did not consider the implications of System if we are playing something that expects Us to open most 10 counts (Kamikaze NT for instance. Although anyone who uses the KNT when Red is really asking for trouble IMHO).

 

If you are playing a system where pd's initial pass tends strongly to deny 10+ points, the odds of game being on Our way drop considerably.