Escape structure after 1NT-X

[Free]

- What do top players use when opponents double their partner's weak 1NT?

- What's the meaning of Pass and RDbl?

- What do they do with GF and game invite hands? What if opponents use their runout system? (example 1NT-X-p-2♦-p-p-???)

- Do they make any difference between strong Doubles and Doubles made on distribution? (like Dbl showing 4M & 5+m, or DONT double - yes some people play this)

 

Remember: WEAK 1NT (11+-14HCP)

[keylime]

Larry and I play 11-13 NV, so here's what we're using.

 

Redouble = spades and another

Pass then redouble = either a five card minor to runout, or wanting to smack 'em around

2C = clubs and hearts

2D = diamonds and hearts

2H/S = natural

 

In other runout methods, the redouble forces 2C to get into a suit to play; in others it's penalty oriented.

 

For good playing hands, we pass and then freebid. We also use 2NT as an artificial G/F for minors.

[awm]

Here's what I frequently play. It's pretty unusual I think, and has some strange advantages and disadvantages:

 

Pass = forcing, always a weak hand; normally balanced or a club suit

XX = business, expect to make 1NTXX, encourage partner to X for t/o if opps run

2♣+ = suction, either the next suit up or the two above that

 

After 1NT-X-Pass-Pass, opener bids 2♣ with three or more clubs and redouble with doubleton club. After opener's redouble, responder's bids are to play. After opener's 2♣, pass is to play (normally 4+♣) and bidding shows a two suiter including the bid suit (opener can pull). Redouble is always rescue.

 

The main potential disadvantage of this method is allowing opponents to double the suction-style transfers in advancer seat to show a good hand. In principle this removes some of the "should we be in a forcing auction" ambiguity over an initial penalty double. Another disadvantage is the inability to play 1NT doubled on a hand that expects down one. However, there are a number of substantial advantages to this method:

 

(1) Right-sides contracts. Very frequently the notrump opener (okay it's a weak notrump, but still stronger than responder's running from 1NTX hand) is declaring and penalty doubler is on lead.

 

(2) Immediately distinguishes good hands from bad via redouble. Starting with a "forcing pass that might be a good hand or a bad hand" leads to a lot of tough situations when doubler's partner runs. And directors have repeatedly ruled that doubler can run himself after the forced redouble, provided that advancer's pass was slow (this ruling seems obviously wrong, but three different nationally certified directors have ruled this way at different times).

 

(3) Makes it easy to bid with distributional hands and game interest, since the suction call is forcing and all two-suiters can be shown in this way (2NT is two non-touching, 5-5 or more).

[rbforster]

I'm not a "top player" but you're welcome to my $0.02 :lol: I play runouts that emphasize majors (at the expense of offer a "both minors" option at the 2 level), which is probably more geared to MPs than IMPs. I play runouts "on" regardless of the meaning of the double, unless the opps convince me that they must bid systematically (rather than pass for penalty) with all good hands by advancer.

 

direct bids over 1N-X show 2 suiters with spades (2♥ both majors but better spades, 2♠ preemptive single suiter). 2N for the minors

pass forces XX. pass for business, or else new suits show 2 suiters with hearts (2♥ both majors better hearts, 2♠ constructive single suiter)

XX forces 2♣ to show a single suiter, pass or correct.

 

Really bad flat hands guess if they are single suited (4333 with most values in the 4) or 2 suited (4333 with values in 2 suits) and bid accordingly. Weak 3 suited hands with low ranking shortness can show a single suiter in their shortness and XX for rescue if X'ed; other 3 suiters can be treated as 2 suiters.

[jtfanclub]

No expert opinions in this post, I'm afraid, although I'm curious what experts think of this:

 

XX=Forcing. 0-5 runout or 9+ inquiry (Staymanish).

Pass= 4-8 nonforcing. Partner is expected to leave it in with a source of tricks or a max, and pull without either.

New suit= nonforcing, 10-

new suit at 3 level= Strong invitation

 

This is a "pressure system". After 1NT-X-P (the most common auction) 4th hand has a lot of difficulty deciding whether to pass or pull. After 1NT-X-XX-P-2♥, 2nd hand has the difficulty.

[pbleighton]

I play *Meckwell* (though I don't know what they are playing these day), which is the same as my defense to a strong NT:

XX A minor or both majors

2m the minor and a major

2M natural

2NT minors

Pass 4333, 4m4m32, or a decent hand which would like to see 1NTx as the final contract.

 

Peter

[Finch]

See http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/dbl_1nt0.htm for an enormous list of possible methods.

 

However, when I play mini NT, I don't play any of them. Here is the run-out system I play at IMPs, rubber and aggregate after a second-seat double:

 

Pass = to play in 1NTx

Redouble = to play in 1NTxx (sets up a forcing pass)

2C, 2D, 2H, 2S = to play

2NT = strong 2-suiter, not willing to play 1NTxx

3C, 3D, 3H, 3S, 3NT, 4C, 4D, 4H, 4S = to play

 

Easy, isn't it?

 

The only conventional call is that opener after 1NT - x - P - P can redouble with a 5/6-card suit to run to, which responder can pass or pull as appropriate.

 

Of the (rather few) expert pairs I am aware of that play weak NT, I don't know of any that play artificial runout methods other than possibly at matchpoints.

 

I know that this doesn't allow responder to show all the various two-suiters that most run-out systems do. However, I'm going to explain why, IMO, this is by far the best run-out system to play. Reasons in descending order of importance:

 

i) The current trend is to allow opener to be mildly off-shape for 1NT (5-card major, 6-card minor - if you play Fantunes you might be 5422 or some people allow 4441). It's much more useful to be able to get out into opener's 6-card club suit than for responder to show 4-4 in two other suits.

 

ii) If neither opener nor responder has a 5+ card suit 1NTx is frequently the opening side's best spot, particularly non-vulnerable. Run-outs rely on either finding a 4-4 fit or the opponents getting bored of doubling, and even if you have a 4-4 fit it needs to play 2 tricks better than 1NT.

 

I particularly hate run-out methods that don't allow responder to suggest playing 1NTx.

 

iii) Artificial methods give the opponents two bites at the cherry. For example, after 1NT x xx (forcing 2C from opener), 4th hand has space to distinguish between a very weak distributional hand and a hand with some values and a good hand. After 1NT x 2S (to play in 2S) a whole level of bidding has been removed. I have played with and against the mini and the weak NT for years, and I much prefer it when the opponents play an artificial escape mechanism. Any evaluation of methods that doesn't consider all four hands at the table is flawed.

 

The worse your opponents, the more it's a good idea to play some artificial methods, because they are less likely to be able to take advantage of the extra room you give them, and because they are less likely to be keen on defending. As it happens, we do play an escape mechanism at matchpoints, but this is really predicated on the benefits from the opponents getting confused during the auction outweighing the downsides above. We take teams matches more seriously! (or rather, either we are playing a weak team and it doesn't matter, or we are playing a strong team and that advantage isn't there)

[downagain]

No expert opinions in this post, I'm afraid, although I'm curious what experts think of this:

 

XX=Forcing.  0-5 runout or 9+ inquiry (Staymanish).

Pass= 4-8 nonforcing.  Partner is expected to leave it in with a source of tricks or a max, and pull without either.

New suit= nonforcing, 10-

new suit at 3 level= Strong invitation

 

This is a "pressure system".  After 1NT-X-P (the most common auction) 4th hand has a lot of difficulty deciding whether to pass or pull.  After 1NT-X-XX-P-2♥, 2nd hand has the difficulty.

I like this structure. When you make pass forcing, 4th hand can calmly pass. That's why a non-forcing pass seems better to me. I also would put ugly 4333 hands or so in 1NT-(dbl)-pass, because usually you won't get to a better place to play.

 

You can even put strong hands in it. The general meaning of pass is then: "I think it's best to play 1N dbled". And if opps run, you can bid on showing a strong hand.

 

So XX van become either weak, no 5-card suit, or invitational strength.

[Finch]

- What do they do with GF and game invite hands? What if opponents use their runout system? (example 1NT-X-p-2♦-p-p-???)

- Do they make any difference between strong Doubles and Doubles made on distribution? (like Dbl showing 4M & 5+m, or DONT double - yes some people play this)

GF and game invite hands that are reasonably balanced redouble. Two suiters bid 2NT. I haven't yet been dealt a game forcing single-suiter, if I were I would bid game.

 

The only difference between "strong" doubles and doubles based on distribution is that you redouble more often when they make an artificial double. That lets you set up a forcing pass for your side and makes the bid/defend decision more consultative.

 

If opponents use their run-out system:

i) If we redoubled, pass is forcing, double is take-out

ii) If we passed, pass is non-forcing, double is take-out

[Walddk]

I particularly hate run-out methods that don't allow responder to suggest playing 1NTx.

Whatever you decide to play (there are zillions of methods), playing in 1NTX must be an option. Well said, Frances.

 

Roland

[sheepman]

How about pass forces ReDbl, weak/ to play. ReDbl to play, which opponent looks more nervous?

[whereagles]

I've given this a lot of thought at some stage and found out a modified version of swine is what works best.

 

The modification includes bids for 4333s and uses pass + suit as signoff in that suit.