DWM Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Had a situation this week (P) - 2♠ - (3♣)* When I asked what the 3♣ bid meant I was told any opening hand. Thinking about it either they have a really strange system or I was not given the full story. At a friendly club night would it be reasonable to make much of a fuss over the description when it does effect what I do. In a tournament I would want to know more. What is the best, most polite whilst gaining the information required, way of going about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 You can ask: "Could it be short, could it even be a void?"In which case this may not even be allowed, because itmay Brown Sticker (I dont know the Brown Sticker definitionvery well, just that I dont play Brown Sticker .) With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I think the correct thing to do is to accept the explanation as it is and then call the TD afterwards if you were damaged. Most of the times opps have no clue what they are doing and asking too much just helps them exchanging UI. In this particular case, you just double to show clubs (penalties) or make some lead-directing bid or just bid whatever game or slam you want to play. If RHO ends up declaring you might ask him if the explanation was correct before making your lead (of course he should volunteer with that information, but someone whose partner is cappable of explaing 3♣ as "any opening" might not know the rules too well). Marlowe: No it's not a BSC. No defense against 2-openings (no matter what the 2-opening means) is a BSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would have asked politely which other bids he had avaiable. By explaining these possibilities, you may get a good picture of which hand he really could have.But as Helene mentioned, this is a double edged sword. If you fear, that they may receive Informations which helps them more then you, you better stay quiet. After all, the explanation is sufficent: Any hand with the eqivalent of more then 12 HCPs, any shape. If you defend and bid according to this, you should always reach a good score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 You have the absolute right to know Their systemic agreements regarding a bid. In their entirety. If the explanation of an Alert seems too vague, then ask "May I please see your convention card?" Then when you are about to make the Opening Lead, if that is your fate, ask "Is there anything else I should know about your agreements in this auction?"(If pd is on Opening Lead, ask them to lead face down and then ask the opponents the above question or any others you feel you need to.) After all this, if at the end of the hand you feel they did not give you information you were entitled to, call the Director and explain what happened step by step and why you feel that you were not told what you were entitled to know about Their agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Had a situation this week (P) - 2♠ - (3♣)* When I asked what the 3♣ bid meant I was told any opening hand. Thinking about it either they have a really strange system or I was not given the full story. At a friendly club night would it be reasonable to make much of a fuss over the description when it does effect what I do. In a tournament I would want to know more. What is the best, most polite whilst gaining the information required, way of going about this. I think 3♣ is used as sort of "take out double" in this sequence. It is used to allow a penalty dbl on any weak 2-level opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 "Any opening hand" would presumably include hands with a spade suit. If the bid is equivalent to a takeout double, why didn't they say so? "If you fear, that they may receive Informations which helps them more then you, you better stay quiet." A player who bases his actions on UI received from his partner (and explanations to opponents is UI to the explainer's partner) has violated the law and any good result his side gets is subject to adjustment. Not to mention the possibility of procedural penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Had a situation this week (P) - 2♠ - (3♣)* When I asked what the 3♣ bid meant I was told any opening hand. Good old Fishbein. Pass: 12- without a red suit, or 10- with a red suit (13/11 vulnerable).X: Penalties2NT: 15+ balanced, with a spade stopper3♦: 10-14 natural (12-16 vulnerable)3♥: 10-14 natural (12-16 vulnerable)3♠: 15+ balanced without a spade stopper, or a 2C opener. 3NT: To play, often with 2 spade stoppers and long clubs 3C: Fert bid. Everything not covered by the above. We usually describe it as being equivalent to a takeout double, which is not all that precise (it's stronger and less shape oriented), but gives the general idea. Of course, there's no guarantee or requirement that your opponents know what takeout doubles are. Honestly? Probably the best way to ask is to simply ask "what would a double show? What would 2NT show?" That should tell you everything you need to know about the 3♣ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 <snip>Most of the times opps have no clue what they are doing and asking too much just helps them exchanging UI.<snip> This goes along with my mother's expert advice: Always accept declarer's lead from the wrong hand. If they don't know where the lead is, they probably don't know what to play. Why give them a chance to think about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 In England this is known as the "Hackett" defence.x = penalties3C = 12-15 "take-out"3D = 16+ "take-out" Some people playing this also play a 2NT overcall as both minors. That leaves the 3C bid as "something that wants to get into the auction that isn't a penalty double" - the explanation isn't so far off, if that's what they play. It's not a very good method and no-one who is any good actually plays it, but it's quite popular in some circles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 It's not a very good method and no-one who is any good actually plays it, but it's quite popular in some circles... That describes lots of popular conventions, doesn't it? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Hey, given what we used to pre-empt on for a while when we were juniors many aeons ago, CMOBDOR (cheaper minor over black double over red for takeouts) enjoyed brief popularity! Mind you those were the days when someone might pre-empt with a 4333 5HCP hand and decide at their next turn based on table action which of the various "pre-emptive options" they held!!! when playing Myxo/sychosuction type pre-empts... We all grow up. Mind you, like the Italian Blue Team I still play one remnant of that style: I use the cheaper minor as a "gap" take-out double (circa 12-15) in the balancing seat against 1 any passed to 4th.... AFAIK that is the sole remaining use in Oz or Europe of cneaper minor for takeout in tournament circles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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