friendliness reputation system

[extrasolid]

Hi all,

 

during the last weeks I have got the concrete and strong feeling, that more and more people leave during bidding and play. Not only if I play with my standardP (4cM, strong club with a lot of canapé). We are used to opps, that are not familiar with such a system and leave when they want to. Not nice, but we can stand it. But yesterday I played with two different P, one time an usual 2/1 approach, one time "better minor". 5 opponents came, had a bad result or only problems with his/her P, because he opened a solid 5c card suit as weak2 in third hand and during bidding of the second board after some passing they went away.

 

I accused 3 of them to abuse@bridgebase and learned, that BBO takes care of the problem. The leaving people get logged, get in the future a warning and in the distant future may be something happens, so theay have to use another nick. Not too sure, that this approach works.

 

I propose to choose a positive register to show the good guys without blackmarking the bad ones!

 

In the kindergarden and the first classes we got bees (chop) on our hands for good work! Why not logging the good guys too and show the nick the greener the more deals are played to the end. So you can see after some time that guys, that never leave - as me! -, that, who leave really on rare occasions and the rest, who is shown in equal color, so nobody can be taunted. Somebody of the BBOteam surely plays chess on playchess.com (chessbase, Fritz, Junior). There you can evaluate your opp as kind or nasty and his behaviour as well or bad.

 

I dont want as much information. You can think about a lot of criteria as alerting, explaining or something like that. It seems sufficient to make visible, who stays until the end of the board. May be better, who stays for at least 3 deals or something like this. Tablehopping is annoyng.

 

 

Uli

(extrasolid)

[kgr]

I would prefer a rating system where you can give a score for players you played against. Both on bridge skills and friendliness. You can only score a player once and a score will not count anymore after one year. Could include some less wait if you only played a couple of hands against a player.

Every player would then get two scores on 10 next to his name. One for bridge skills and one for friendliness. Not perfect, but should give a good indication if you are looking for a pickup partner.

[inquiry]

I accused 3 of them to abuse@bridgebase and learned, that BBO takes care of the problem. The leaving people get logged, get in the future a warning and in the distant future may be something happens, so theay have to use another nick. Not too sure, that this approach works.

BBO software does indeed AUTOMATICALLY track and log all people who leave during the bidding or play of a hand. The software will issue automatic bans if this occurs too frequently. No yellow has to be involved this is automatic.

 

The definition of leaving during the hand is if the player makes a bid (pass or bid) then leaves before the last card is played, that counts. Note, this applies to dummy too. A couple of exceptions. After the first player abandons a hand, the others can stop without it being logged. The total number of abandons over all time is not an issue, it is the frequency over a short period of time. Changing nicks usually does not help, all nicks including some innocent ones usually get caught up in the ban.

 

If too many of this happens, a short ban is automatically issued... if too many such bans occur, abuse has the option of stronger action

[jkljkl]

The definition of leaving during the hand is if the player makes a bid (pass or bid) then leaves before the last card is played, that counts. Note, this applies to dummy too.

 

May I ask why it applies to dummy too? I think it is good manners to leave the seat free as dummy if I intend to leave after the hand so that the other three players will not suffer a delay waiting for the next player to pop in.

 

 

I have the impression that a lot of this discussions revolving about ratings of different kind is due of the fact that it is not uncommon to have 3 different opp in one hand to your left or right.

 

My suggestion would be to make a second try about a different room. The choice "Masters Bridge Club" did not work and was psychologically maybe not the best.

 

How about a rom for established partnerships of any level. Of yourse you would not get casual players thrown in from the lobby.

 

ciao stefan

[jocdelevat]

You can use edit player notes by right click on player id and edit whatever you want there, For exemple if z player leaves after bad results you can put a note so next time you''ll not accept him/her at your table.

[jdonn]

Note, this applies to dummy too.

Why? So if I say last hand, and I become dummy, I have to sit there and watch? That's pretty absurd.

 

(I see now someone else already asked this question)

 

With my almost nonexistant knowledge of programming, I don't think it would be a complicated or extensive change to make this logging not apply to dummy as soon as the bidding ends.

[DrTodd13]

You can use edit player notes by right click on player id and edit whatever you want there, For exemple if z player leaves after bad results you can put a note so next time you''ll not accept him/her at your table.

For the thousandth time, your suggestion is a non-solution. There is a seemingly infinite supply of idiots and jerks. I have a huge enemies list and still encounter many new additions to it everyday. You can waste your time all day long in MBC dealing with these people. Not having to deal with them again is good but new ones will just take their place. You need a way to preempt playing with these people in the first place and only the equivalent of bad word-of-mouth is going to do it.

[DJNeill]

Hey,

Side note on previous post: I have reached the boundary of number of enemies. Now I have to prioritize :-) Bear in mind this is for chat-muting, not avoidance.

 

Dan

[inquiry]

In answer to the questions above about applying to dummy, yes, that is correct. My understanding is that it applies even when you are dummy. The limits are clearly quite generous as "everyone" leaves as dummy on the last hand and they are not being banned left and right by the computer. In fact, you have to be pretty nasty about leaving games frequently to be caught up by this blunt edge sword thingee.... don't lose a lot of sleep over it. If you sit down and PLAY, you will not run afowl of this rule. And those that jump from table to table, will.

[jdonn]

In answer to the questions above about applying to dummy, yes, that is correct. My understanding is that it applies even when you are dummy. The limits are clearly quite generous as "everyone" leaves as dummy on the last hand and they are not being banned left and right by the computer. In fact, you have to be pretty nasty about leaving games frequently to be caught up by this blunt edge sword thingee.... don't lose a lot of sleep over it. If you sit down and PLAY, you will not run afowl of this rule. And those that jump from table to table, will.

That didn't answer anything, it just confirmed what we already knew. The question is "why?"

[inquiry]

In answer to the questions above about applying to dummy, yes, that is correct. My understanding is that it applies even when you are dummy.  The limits are clearly quite generous as "everyone" leaves as dummy on the last hand and they are not being banned left and right by the computer. In fact, you have to be pretty nasty about leaving games frequently to be caught up by this blunt edge sword thingee.... don't lose a lot of sleep over it. If you sit down and PLAY, you will not run afowl of this rule. And those that jump from table to table, will.

That didn't answer anything, it just confirmed what we already knew. The question is "why?"

I guess the answer is that is how uday programmed it, or at least my understanding of how it works.

[nige1]

[sNIP]

BBO software does indeed AUTOMATICALLY track and log all people who leave during the bidding or play of a hand. The software will issue automatic bans if this occurs too frequently. No yellow has to be involved this is automatic.

 

The definition of leaving during the hand is if the player makes a bid (pass or bid) then leaves before the last card is played, that counts. Note, this applies to dummy too.

[sNIP]

If too many of this happens, a short ban is automatically issued... if too many such bans occur, abuse has the option of stronger action

My ISP keeps disconnecting my old-fashioned telephone line. I immediately redial and login again to BBO. That can take a few minutes. If given the option to rejoin the table that I left, I always do so. Sometimes, however, I've been forcibly substituted in my absence. Fair enough.

 

Does the automatic BBO software record such disconnections as leaving the table in the middle of a hand? IMO it should not do so if you immediately try to rejoin the table. when given that option.

[inquiry]

My ISP keeps disconnecting my old-fashioned telephone line. I immediately redial and login again to BBO. That can take a few minutes. If given the option to rejoin the table that I left, I always do so. Sometimes, however, I've been forcibly substituted in my absence. Fair enough.

 

Does the automatic BBO software record such disconnections as leaving the table in the middle of a hand? IMO it should not do so if you immediately try to rejoin the table. when given that option.

If you have made at least one bid, and if the last card has not been played, and if you fail to rejoin the table before the last card is played, yes, it counts it as leaving the hand during play.

 

I suspect you have never been banned for this, so you are not being disconnect so much it is causing you a problem with the banning issue.

[extrasolid]

My goal is, to get a positive answer on tablehopping, not discussing, if the current system works or which drawbacks there are.

 

I teach some things - not Bridge, of course - and often work with people in teams. Experience shows, that it is much easier to motivate others to do what you want, if you show the advantages as e. g. a green nick! As I said before, I dont want to destroy the spirit of BBO and my suggestion should not lead to blackmailing others. So the hurdle to overcome to get a green nick should be high enough.

 

I can draw the conclusion from the posts so far, that the readers, and players, want something else, because they discuss the current system. Thats ok, that´s not the theme of my thread.

 

Uli

[sceptic]

going by the title it is hard to say subjectively what it is you want an answer to, some people here are great in the forums yet rude as hell at the table and probably vice versa, despite what they post, a friend or enemy is only how you perceive them, some people like people I find objectionable and some dislike people I find nice, so really you have to define people as you see fit, (the current player notes is a good system in my mind)

 

I doubt Fred could program anything that works for everyone and I would think it a waste of his time to even try.

 

I have been guilty of table hopping usually when I sit and say hi and get no response, I really can't be bothered with people that do not even have manners enough to say hello, so when I sit at a table and then just leave, maybe some one marks me as rude for table hopping, when in reality, I am marking them down as rude for not speaking

 

with the exception of tourney directors that use enemies lists, I think anyone with a huge enemy list should look at their own behaviour and attitude, maybe they are the problem and not the people on thier enemy lists, I can't see how one persons judgement is valid against anyone, there are too many facors to take into account and who are you (this is not aimed at anyone in particular) to judge someone elses behaviour, have you considered that they leave because of your own behaviour.

it's a funny old world

[mink]

I have been guilty of table hopping usually when I sit and say hi and get no response, I really can't be bothered with people that do not even have manners enough to say hello, so when I sit at a table and then just leave, maybe some one marks me as rude for table hopping, when in reality, I am marking them down as rude for not speaking

I have introduced about 20 players to BBO. Quite a lot of them found it hard to play and type at the same time, or even to type at all (people who never used a keyboard until they got a computer at the age of 66). Some of them have only little knowledge of English. So if I play in the Main Bridge Club and encounter some player who does not talk, I just assume he has problems like this.

 

However, if I invite a new partner from the partnership desk of tourney, I say hello and get no response before the tourney starts, I occasionally delete the registration after some time. People who cannot type should not play tourneys.

 

Karl

[mink]

Hi Uli,

 

marking the non-leavers green would result in marking the leavers blue, so you could also mark the leavers brown and the majority of non-leavers stay blue - just different colors. I would vote for such a system, as it can easily be done automatically, and I expect that it will produce a good benefit, as the leavers will quickly find it hard to get enter a table. I would vote for no penalties if the dummy leaves. And there should be no penalty if a player leaves after there has been no action for some time, rather, the player in turn should receive a penalty, if his connection was ok.

 

However, I would not do anything about players who leave after having played only 1 board, because maybe there were good reasons for this, and the automatism cannot guess these reasons.

 

Karl

[jillybean]

People who cannot type should not play tourneys.

 

I don't care if they can't type - can they play the damn cards? :)

 

Players leaving the table are just the nature of online bridge; repetitive table-hoppers get caught by BBO.

It’s a different story when someone bids 7NXX and leaves after adding a few profanities.

[kenrexford]

I think this is a good idea. My addition is that we use sounds to rate people as to friendliness.

 

If the person is rather friendly, the BBO software should pipe to our computers the sound of chirping birds, kittens playing, or something like that. If not so nice, maybe a "grrrr!" If they are lousy players, perhaps a sighing sound. If they are unsolicited teachers, maybe "Schoooooool's...Out...For...Summer!" playing in the background.

 

I'd have the Twilight Zone theme playing, I suppose.

[extrasolid]

Hello,

 

I would like to answer Mink. No, it is not the same to make someone green or someone brown. Deep in my heart I think, the glass is half-full and human beeing is good. So lets choose a supporting, positive approuch. I would like to see few people green and a lot of blue PLUS the system currently used. If you need, lets say 1000 hands to get a green nick, you will rarely see one of them and think: "oh, there´s a nice player". It´s ment as award.

 

And - to some other answers - I dont think it exists a behaviour we should accept "online" that we do not accept "at the table".

 

Uli