"type and degree of support"

[gwnn]

(1♣)-1♠-(X)-?

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sa863hj7dkq54cjt5]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Strong opps.

 

You might ask something like "what are your requirements for (...)?". Pretend you have a meta-agreement with partner that sounds something like "We agree with Robson/Segal".

[mike777]

(1♣)-1♠-(X)-?

 

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> West </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> None </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> A863 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> J7 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> KQ54 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> JT5 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

 

Strong opps.

 

You might ask something like "what are your requirements for (...)?". Pretend you have a meta-agreement with partner that sounds something like "We agree with Robson/Segal".

OoooPPs a simple 2clubs is forbodden! RATS!

2c

 

edit btw I think all the choices are goofy/silly..please play them

 

 

Have no idea what our meta stuff is...

I cuebid.

 

If my wc partner is confused...blame me.

[gwnn]

Oops. forgot 2♣ out ;)

 

2♣ would be "nice hand with 3 card support, or 4 card support with low ODR".

btw I think all the choices are goofy/silly..please play them

I think that's a little harsh, but maybe it's just me.

[mike777]

Oops. forgot 2♣ out ;)

 

2♣ would be "nice hand with 3 card support, or 4 card support with low ODR".

btw I think all the choices are goofy/silly..please play them

I think that's a little harsh, but maybe it's just me.

I am exhausted by all the choices....

 

Can i just bid 2 clubs...not an option?

 

I have no idea what odr/monkey.=/jump fit////etc is .... or whatever is.......

 

I repeat i bid 2clubs...

 

If my world class partner is confused...blame me.

[Free]

I don't think this hand is very offensive to say the least, so 2NT is imo an overbid. 2♣ or 3♣ are both better bids imo, 2♣ probably the best.

[Flame]

This hand is somewhere between 2♣ and 2NT.

It is not a 3♣ because 3♣ hands should be more shapy with less HCP.

It might be a matter of overcall style and maybe even the vul, for me i think its good enough for 2NT.

[Fluffy]

2♣ for me too lol

[Apollo81]

You really didn't have to list 1NT, 3♥, and 3NT as options in this poll.

[Apollo81]

I would use a 4-card limit raise if one was available. It's not clear whether 2NT as described means "limit+" or not. If so, I bid 2NT, else I bid 2♣.

[pclayton]

The nice thing about having mixed raises in your arsenal is that you no longer have to stretch to show a 4 card limit raise. This, to me, is a max mixed raise, not a min limit raise.

[jtfanclub]

It is not a 3♣ because 3♣ hands should be more shapy with less HCP.

I don't think I understand the options.

 

3 clubs is a mixed raise, 2NT is an offensive limit raise.

 

Doesn't that mean that 2NT is more shapy than 3 clubs?

[gwnn]

You really didn't have to list 1NT, 3♥, and 3NT as options in this poll.

Yea.. And 2♣ would have had its place.

 

I'll make a better poll next time.

[Free]

You really didn't have to list 1NT, 3♥, and 3NT as options in this poll.

Yea.. And 2♣ would have had its place.

 

I'll make a better poll next time.

and always include a "other" option :P

[Halo]

3C

 

Assuming 2NT is the more shapely raise - otherwise vice versa.

[keylime]

I spent 35 minutes on this hand - I finally voted for the mixed raise since I held J♥ and JTx♣.

 

I don't consider this to be a true offensive hand because a) I lack shortage :P I lack intermediates in my 2 prime suit and c) I have three dead clubs, a bad omen.

[Apollo81]

I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that this is a mixed raise.

[Guest Jlall]

2C (you said this can contain 4 trumps with low ODR right?),

 

and to add to apollo's comment... I really really really don't understand calling this a mixed raise. A mixed raise is more like Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx than this balanced 11 count.

[jdonn]

I second (third?) the 'this is nothing like a mixed raise which is both lighter and more offensive' comments. I don't think this is even a problem hand. If 2♣ can contain four trumps in your system then it seems obvious since the offense is very low. If it can't, then your systematic bid is 2NT and there is no reason to deviate.

[Flame]

keylime you explained why this is not an offensive hand yet choose the mix raize which show exaxtly the opposite.

[jtfanclub]

keylime you explained why this is not an offensive hand yet choose the mix raize which show exaxtly the opposite.

Because the two choices (with 2♣ being off the board) are a "mixed raise" and an "offensive raise". It seems the argument being made here is that an offensive raise is is less offensive than the mixed raise.

[kgr]

2C (you said this can contain 4 trumps with low ODR right?),

 

and to add to apollo's comment... I really really really don't understand calling this a mixed raise. A mixed raise is more like Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx than this balanced 11 count.

Justin,

I would bid a preemptive 3♠ with that example and took 2NT from the poll.

I would be very interested if you (..or another expert) could give example hands of the different support bids (2♣, 3♣, 2NT, 2♠, 3♠ - any other?)

Thanks,

Koen

[cherdano]

I would bid 2N, 2♣ is the other sensible option, everything else isn't even a consideration for me.

[keylime]

Here's why I don't think this is offensive enough:

 

1. Not enough controls. I have three working controls and a Q that is helping my king. However, my fragments are just blah, and pard is just an overcaller. Pard (especially mine who bids every close game) will move on any shapely 11 count for their overcall and be down on more layouts than making.

 

2. Three dead in their opening suit. Assuming opener has a likely 4 card club suit, can we sufficiently control the 2nd round of clubs if pard has no heart ace over there?

 

3. The ODR isn't offensive enough. I want 2NT to be a shape raise with working values; so that I can cheaply cuebid and then bid again to show a balanced limit raise if pard makes some noise. This hand to me, is barely enough for a limit raise opposite an opener - over an overcaller, let overcaller show their range before I commit to a blast.

 

4. You bury their 3C rebid if they have one. So what if I trot out my cute little 2NT LR or better, if you hear a 3C bid cause they are short/void in spades? Instead, let 'em struggle with their potential fit or bid 4C.

[pbleighton]

2C, with 2N a close second.

 

To me, showing a mixed raise is a clear underbid.

 

Peter

[Guest Jlall]

2C (you said this can contain 4 trumps with low ODR right?),

 

and to add to apollo's comment... I really really really don't understand calling this a mixed raise. A mixed raise is more like Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx than this balanced 11 count.

Justin,

I would bid a preemptive 3♠ with that example and took 2NT from the poll.

I would be very interested if you (..or another expert) could give example hands of the different support bids (2♣, 3♣, 2NT, 2♠, 3♠ - any other?)

Thanks,

Koen

I personally do not play 2N in the way used in this poll, but I will give you what I would have roughly for each bid if I did play these methods (note it was stated that 2C can be bid on 4 card support with low ODR).

 

2C: Kxx Kxx Axxxx xx or Kxxx Kxx AJx xxx.

 

2S: Kxx xx Kxxxx xxx

 

2N: KQxx xx AQxx xxx

 

3C: Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx

 

3S: Qxxx x xxxx xxxx

 

re bidding 3S with my example hand for a mixed raise, I think that NV that is a very heavy 3S bid. You have 2 kings and a stiff which is like 9 support points, it's not quite a limit raise but not really a preemptive raise (which could be made with 4 trumps and a singleton and no HCP in my opinion). The point of the mixed raise in my mind is to fill the gap left between preemptive raise and limit raise in a hand that's not quite right for a simple raise because if partner has the right hand (controls, trump length, shortness) you can make a game easily.

 

I see people all the time making a mixed raise with Qxxx Kxxx Qx Jxx and stuff and that is really not the right hand for it (I would give a simple raise).

 

If you bid 3S with Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx NV then you will be forced to have a very wide range or not be able to make enough preemptive raises, I thought the point of a mixed raise was to alleviate this problem.

 

If you agree with what I just wrote then you are probably totally confused by all the votes for a mixed raise with a soft balanced 11 count.