Paris Hilton in Jail!

[mike777]

All of the Usa media is covering the big story of the day, no not Iraq or the presidential debates, Paris Hilton is in Jail. But there is other news.

 

Here is an email hand from the District final. Assume you are playing with a top class partner but did not discuss this particular auction before sitting down. If you wish to discuss how your partnership plays this auction, great. Pick a slam, GSF, other?

 

3. xx x KJxxx AQxxx Both

 

1D 1S

2C 2H

3C 5NT

[pclayton]

WOW PARIS IS IN JAIL?!

 

For me, its pick a slam. GSF starts after pard raises one of my minors.

 

Since my clubs are a little better, 6♣ looks obvious, however, this may be a Vondracek hand where we need be in 6♦ (or 6N) across from:

 

AKxx

AKx

QTx

Kxx

 

Come to think about it, 6N has a lot going for it.

[Apollo81]

I'm not used to seeing "Jail" on this board....when I saw it for a split second I read "Jlall"

[ArcLight]

For a moment I thought teh title of this topic was

"Paris Hilton in Jlall",

and I was thinking "he certainly does like the party life. ;)

 

 

As for the auction, what is responders shape? I assume its 5-4, because with 4-4 Hearts would be bid before Spades.

 

I assume Clubs are the trump suit? Grand Slam Force makes little sense unless responder is 5=4=0=4 with AKQ in both majors and the A or K of Clubs (and probably spots too, maybe 10, 9 or even J 10).

 

Pick a slam? What are the choices Clubs and what? NT? Certainly not Diamonds if responder is 5=4=2=2.

Are the cloices Spades or Clubs?

 

 

I guess its the GSF. I'm tempted to bid 6C because even though I have the 2 of the 3 top honors, I hate going down in 7 on a misunderstanding.

[gwnn]

whenever you don't have an idea about what's going on in a slam auction,

 

-rebid your own suit on the lowest level

-make the lowest level bid

 

(from poorbridge.com)

 

How merry is this situation, for the two advices concur!

 

6♣

[Guest Jlall]

pick a slam, we have no established fit etc etc.

 

I would bid 6C.

[whereagles]

6♣ for me too.

 

And I hate this sort of undiscussed bid. It's like pard saying "I feel like bidding 5NT. You figure out what I want." Totally irresponsible.

[Free]

Can partner have 6♠? Otherwise 6♣...

[mike777]

OK, since everyone on the forum says:

1) playing with top class pickup 5nt=pick a slam

2) in regular partnership 5nt=pick a slam

 

Here are some email comments for your enjoyment.

 

"The third hand from our quiz set comes from the qualifying round of the GNT teams. It was the last board of our match against the MORSE team that we had been trailing by a small margin. Sally Wheeler was a member of this team and is competing this week in Chicago in the US Women's Team Trials to see who our country will send to compete in the Venice Cup. I kibitzed Sally for a few hands yesterday as the Team Trials are being broadcast Vuegraph style on BridgeBase Online. Her team (SULGROVE) was leading in its semi-final match. Chip was also kibitzing the women, and he is on one of the men's teams that are about to start their play-off matches. If you have a chance, check out these play-offs yourself on line.

 

3. xx x KJxxx AQxxx Both

 

1D 1S

2C 2H

3C 5NT

??

 

I'm copying Ira (the Iron Monkey) Hessel here, as both he and I were the 5NT bidders. I actually blasted to 5NT a round earlier in the bidding, and my partner had no trouble reading it as the grand slam force. I would never for a moment thought there'd be any controversy with it, and maybe would give my hand (after all, I made the great 5NT bid) as the quiz.

 

But surprisingly, Dan Morse at the table, and a handful of you all here didn't see it that way with the auction that Ira generated. Most interesting.

 

 

 

HOLLINGSWORTH: 7 clubs. If I'm your partner you bid 7C. You have no choice. My hand is AKQ109xxx AKx Kx and I convert to 7S.

 

Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice, but to carry on (to 7C).

 

TURNER: 6 clubs. It's "choice".

 

APPLEBAUM: 7 clubs. - I assume this is GSF in clubs since pard could have bid 3D first to set that suit as trump. Of course he could have done the same in clubs with 4C (I assume both 3D and 4C would be forcing, but maybe pard was afraid 4C wasn't forcing). If 5NT was choice of slams (pard's 3-3 in my suits and doesn't know if I'm 6-5 or 5-6), that's a bit deep for me, but possible.

 

Exactly Alan! The more levels we take up bidding, the more chances something can go wrong - which I guess Ira and I kinda proved by bidding 5NT when we did as it was. If we wait another round, it could get even foggier. What if we raise 3C to 4C and hear our partner take over or bid something like 4S. Is 5N then GSF for clubs? I guess so. But it seems the sooner you bid it, the better.

 

KOLESNIK: 6 clubs. I play 5N says pick a slam: AKJxx, Ax, Axx, Kxx. I bid 6C, as my clubs are better than my diamonds, and I don't have the magical Qx spades that partner wants to play spades opposite. I am free to bid a grand with a better hand, which I clearly don't have.

 

I guess this becomes a good topic for advanced partnerships to discuss. While Hugh and I haven't really ever played "choice" as long as I can remember, I know this other regular partner of mine does play "choice":

 

JOHNSON: 7 clubs. Sounds like GSF, not pick a slam to me.

 

Oh boy, I guess that's good Mike agrees with me on this hand-but I fear I'll bid the GSF on another hand some day and it'll sound different that time.

 

MARTEL: 6 Diamonds. 5N is an odd bid. Would normally be choice of slams in my system (raise clubs then 5N with GSF). Still, hard to see how partner can give up on 7 when I'm mostly unlimited (could have an extra ace or more). Probably best to bid 6D. If choice of slams, could be the right spot (partner has Axx AKxx Axx Kxx so can make if either suit is 3-2). Also, if it is GSF will get us to 7C.

 

Odd bid? Okay. It is very good to makes allowances for partner to be odd. 6 Diamonds is brilliant, as it covers both types of bids your partner may be making. BRAVO!! Good luck in the team trials, Chip!

 

So what was partner's hand??

 

AQJTxx AKx void KJTx

xx x KJxxx AQxxx

 

 

 

While not frigid, 7C is a pretty good spot. Hugh made it by pitching his spade on the hearts and ruffing out the King of spades which this time was doubleton behind the ace. Morse just made 6, but he was only playing in 6. This swung the match to a 1 IMP victory for our side.

 

Was my 5NT a bit aggressive? (our auction was 1D-1S-2C-5N-7C) Perhaps, but I knew the match was close, with us likely behind and figured it'd be at worst on a spade finesse."

 

Scores:

 

7C (4) 100

6D (1) 150

6C (3) 20

[cherdano]

Pffft. In the given auction, the 5N bidder timed hsi 5N bid exactly so it is most likely understood as pick-a-slam (a round earlier and later it would clearly have been GSF).

Playing with any BBF regular I would take it as pick-a-slam and offer a 4-1 bet that I am right (not with mike777, as with him I wouldn't be in this situation as he doesn't make bids that make life difficult for partner).

[mike777]

Pffft. In the given auction, the 5N bidder timed hsi 5N bid exactly so it is most likely understood as pick-a-slam (a round earlier and later it would clearly have been GSF).

Playing with any BBF regular I would take it as pick-a-slam and offer a 4-1 bet that I am right (not with mike777, as with him I wouldn't be in this situation as he doesn't make bids that make life difficult for partner).

:) I try not to, but I still do but ya my goal in life is try not to make bids that confuse partner. But I love the PFffTT comment.

 

Now if I can only get others to join the movement. :P

[Halo]

Not Paris (he was a guy) it's the Empress Josephine.

 

7C of course.

[TrialBid]

By the numbers, I am miserably old-fashioned and out-of-touch. However, there is simply no room for 5NT to be anything other than GSF, imho.

 

The real rub comes down to this: with the 3C bidder still relatively unlimited, there can be no possible justification for using up all that bidding room, unless a grand slam can be underwritten simply on the grounds of knowing whether partner has particular values and that if he doesn't a grand slam is out of the question.

 

To me 5NT makes sense as pick a slam when the auction has progressed farther and neither partner has been able to imply more than a secondary preference for a suit.

 

Why wasn't 5NT bid on the previous round? Since partner might be rebidding 2C on Jxxx, why risk his having that hand when you can hear one more clarifying bid first? Perhaps I have AKQJxxx AKx -- Kxx. There is no slam at all opposite x Jxx AKQ10x Jxxx unless I get a helpful lead.

[pclayton]

This isn't judgement, its convention.

 

I don't care what the 'logic' is here, this is a conventional call. Do you not respond to key card, because it doesn't make sense that pard is making the call?

 

The subject hand sets trump with 4♣.

 

Then:

 

4♦ - 4♥

5♣ - 5♥

5♠ - 5N

7♣

[cherdano]

The subject hand sets trump with 4♣.

 

Then:

 

4♦ - 4♥

5♣ - 5♥

5♠ - 5N

7♣

Over 4♦ you can bid 5N directly, which should be clearly a GSF. I think the 5N bid in your sequence would be understood as a grand slam invitation by an expert pickup partner, not a force.

[Guest Jlall]

ya with a GSF why not just bid 4C lol.

[pclayton]

The subject hand sets trump with 4♣.

 

Then:

 

4♦ - 4♥

5♣ - 5♥

5♠ - 5N

7♣

Over 4♦ you can bid 5N directly, which should be clearly a GSF. I think the 5N bid in your sequence would be understood as a grand slam invitation by an expert pickup partner, not a force.

Maybe, but I'm concerned about a spade control.

[EricK]

5NT puts us on the horns of a dilemma: It is either a GSF or pick-a-slam but neither really makes any sense!

 

I haven't limited my hand (well I have a little bit but I could be much stronger than the 10 points I hold, or on the other hand I could have a hand with worse playing strength) so how can partner be saying "we should be playing in a small slam - no higher, no lower - you decide which one"?

 

On the other hand, if partner wanted to make GSF in ♣ why didn't he agree ♣ first?

 

I believe the first reason is more plausible. If you haven't discussed 4SF in much detail, maybe he doesn't know if 4♣ would be forcing. So I think that GSF is more likely meaning for pard's bid.

[Fluffy]

GSF, I would answer 6♥, but since it is not listed, it is not GSF ;)

[bid_em_up]

Contrary to others, I do not believe this is "pick a slam". It is GSF for ♣ 100%.

 

Partner created a game force over our 2C bid (we know that it was game force now, because of the 5N bid now, even if we only play 4SF as forcing to 4m).

 

He liked what he heard from the 3C bid. He also had other ways to show support for both minors, right? If you are afraid to trust partner and bid 7C now because of the distributional weak opening (as some appear to be), then maybe you shouldn't be opening 5-5 ten counts in first seat. If you decided the hand is an opening bid in your system, then bid 7C like you are supposed to and apologize later. Note, I am not arguing the merits of opening this hand, but once you decide to open it, you should not chicken out later just because you think you may have less than partner is expecting.

 

Btw, if 4SF is only forcing to 4m for you, can the auction 1D-1S-2C-2H-3C-4C now be passed? Hmmm.

[bid_em_up]

On the other hand, if partner wanted to make GSF in ♣ why didn't he agree ♣ first?

Because....are you certain that 4C is 100% forcing?

 

Look at AKxxx xxx Qx Kxx for example, and how will you bid it? Are you going to pass 3C? Are you going to blast 5C and lose 3 hearts off the top? (Or 2 hearts and a side loser in either diamonds or clubs).

[cherdano]

Grrrrrrrrr, I could read this once without commenting, but twice is enough. 1D 1S 2C 2H 3C 4C IS FORCING!!!!!!!!*

 

Also, responder has no way to "support both minors" in standard bidding.

 

(* = unless you have agreed 4st forcing is invite+ only, but that's not the default agreement with an expert pickup partner)

[Finch]

With a top class pick-up partner I would wonder why he had sprung this bid on me.

 

Then I would assume it is grand slam force.

 

With my regular partners this auction simply doesn't exist. When clubs have been agreed we play 5♠ as GSF and 5NT as a spade cue bid, but partner would agree clubs first. If partner had bid 5♠ rather than 5NT I would indeed assume it was GSF in clubs

[SoTired]

5N is GSF. PERIOD. What suit? Clubs! I have AQ of clubs, so I bid 7C. Simple. What is partner's hand? Something like AKQxxx Ax Ax KJx

[sathyab]

A little late to the party here, but honestly I don't see 5nt as pick a slam at all here. Pick a slam is used when there are two strains to pick (from among three ?), with pass/correct options and bidding room is constrained to preclude expressing all of the above nuances. Here 5nt has to be GSF for the second suit. Almost everyone plays the raise to 4c as forcing these days, but if undiscussed, I'm sure it wouldn't be unreasonable to think of it as merely invitational. I wonder if 4d over 3c would be considered invitational as well, I hope not, but then again, it's natural and undiscussed, so not an unreasonable interpretation. I'd bid 7c which partner can pass or correct to 7d.