What went wrong?

[awm]

The following two hands were played recently at matchpoints. The N/S system is 2/1 with fairly standard extras. What went wrong in the auction on each? What should we have done?

 

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sqj32ha65djckq876&s=skt964h7da43ct542]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

North opened 1♣, South bid 1♠, North raised to 2♠. All pass, making five on fairly normal play. Who should have bid more?

 

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sqj32ha65djckq876&s=skt964h7da43ct542]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

North opened 1♦ and south bid 1♥. West overcalled 1♠ and north made a support double. East bid 2♠ and everyone passed. The contract made, declarer scoring four spades plus a ruff of a club, one diamond, and two hearts. For N/S, 3♣ would have made. Who should've bid on?

[the hog]

Adam, on hand 1 it is unreasonable for Sth to bid over 2S. North MIGHT have bid 3S I guess, but this would have been an overbid imo. Put it down to a really well fitting hand. Your opponents were tame with 2 9 card fits btw.

 

Hand 2 I would have opened 1C but that is by the by. Again Nth MIGHT have doubled 2S and so you would have found 3C. This action is clearer than on the first hand imo.

[Apollo81]

1. I don't blame anyone. If North's ♦J were the ♣J, then he is almost in 3♠, but not quite.

 

2. South should have bid 3♣ over 2♠. North could have had 2335 and the auction would have been the same. Doesn't pay to let them play 2♠ on this kind of auction.

 

edit: oops I thought North opened 1♣. My bad - again no one's fault.

[mike777]

2) Seems North could bid 2nt...takeout at MP. The opp are at their lawful level at MP.

BTW agree one diamond.

 

1) Look forward to the forum comments.

[pbleighton]

Board 1 seems to me to be dead normal bidding. Sout would push, if either would, but it's matchpoints. Maybe I would vul at imps, but probably not even then.

 

Board 2 is not quite as simple, but I think the bidding is reasonable. South could have bid 3C, but I probably would have passed.

 

Peter

[cherdano]

The second one would be easy without support doubles, wouldn't it? North would pass over 1♠, then he would double 2♠ for takeout, having limited his strength earlier.

If North is doubling again, how can he distinguish the hand he has from x Kxx AQJxx AKxx?

[Guest Jlall]

1) The bidding was totally normal.

 

2) North has to balance over 2S. He really can't sell with that hand. South doing anything over 2S seems pretty crazy.

[Guest Jlall]

If North is doubling again, how can he distinguish the hand he has from x Kxx AQJxx AKxx?

North has to bid more if he has this hand.

 

If he had this hand minus the club king he would balance with 3C.

[dake50]

1: both should bid more. N has 5-losers with 4-support for a major = 3S. South has a (maybe) double black fit = 3C.

 

2: both should anticipate S competition. N reopens double after only support double last round, can't get too hot. S double over 2S gets clubs considered, with a H4-3 as last evil.

[mike777]

The second one would be easy without support doubles, wouldn't it? North would pass over 1♠, then he would double 2♠ for takeout, having limited his strength earlier.

If North is doubling again, how can he distinguish the hand he has from x Kxx AQJxx AKxx?

2nt in balance seat seems to show this hand perfectly esp. with the support double.

 

I agree with more you need to find another bid. I would start with x not 2nt.

 

Never compete in NT.

I do not understand all this stuff wanting south to bid something directly over 2s.

[Codo]

1. Outside opinion: North could have make more if he is counting loosers, he has just six. But I would not bid more then 2 Spade.

Sout should have make more: He has a 5. spade, a stiff and a double fit. He has just 7 HCP but these are great points.

 

If you raise routinely on 3 card support, North should have done more with his hand.

 

 

2. I think any (most/many/no?) sensible partner would understand norths 2 NT bid in the pass out seat. So this is what he should have done.

[Fluffy]

I cannot improve any of the 2 boards.

[ochinko]

I count losers when I see such a nice fit, so I'd routinely bid 3♠ on the first one, and I expect most of my partners would do the same. Then, of course, South will raise to 4♠ as he looks at his 8 losers hand.

 

On the second one South could bid 3♣. Least of all this will guide a better lead if opps continue to compete. It wouldn't cross my mind at IMP, but given the favorable vulnerability, I might try it at MP. Assuming opps' 2♠ make and I'm down one, even doubled I make a profit. Partner will correct to 3♦ with 6 of them.

[Free]

1: both should bid more. N has 5-losers with 4-support for a major = 3S. South has a (maybe) double black fit = 3C.

5 losers? I count 2♠, 2♥, 1♦ and 1♣, which makes 6 losers... :rolleyes:

South on the other hand has a nice hand according to losers (if you only support with 4M that is): he has 8,5 (substract 1 for the extra trump). So south may do something more, but it's still pushing too much imo.

 

Ofcourse, if opps don't balance with a double 9-card fit, it gets hard to find the magic game

[mikeh]

On the first one, I think that S could at least consider a move if he played a style in which the raise to 2♠ promises 4. In such a partnership, I would bid 3♣, a natural help suit try, and N with a LTC of 6 has an easy acceptance.

 

If, as would be the case for most, the raise to 2♥ could be based on a bad hand with 3 card support, then one would need to be in an aggressive mood to move over the raise. It would be easier at imps..but mps dictates caution: one does not want to turn a plus into a minus.

 

The second hand is entirely reasonable.

[lowerline]

The following two hands were played recently at matchpoints. The N/S system is 2/1 with fairly standard extras. What went wrong in the auction on each? What should we have done?

 

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sqj32ha65djckq876&s=skt964h7da43ct542]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

North opened 1♣, South bid 1♠, North raised to 2♠. All pass, making five on fairly normal play. Who should have bid more?

 

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sqj32ha65djckq876&s=skt964h7da43ct542]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

North opened 1♦ and south bid 1♥. West overcalled 1♠ and north made a support double. East bid 2♠ and everyone passed. The contract made, declarer scoring four spades plus a ruff of a club, one diamond, and two hearts. For N/S, 3♣ would have made. Who should've bid on?

1. Double fit in the blacks, ♦A and single ♥. Enough for a game try by South.

 

2. 3♣ by South. South knows his partner must have 8 or 9 cards in the minors. You might end up in a 4-3 or 5-2 but it's MPs!

 

Steven

[foo]

The following two hands were played recently at matchpoints. The N/S system is 2/1 with fairly standard extras. What went wrong in the auction on each? What should we have done?

North,Both,MP,

♠QJ32♥A65♦J♣KQ876

♠KT964♥7♦A43♣T542

 

North opened 1♣, South bid 1♠, North raised to 2♠. All pass, making five on fairly normal play. Who should have bid more?

?Iff? you have the methods, S needs to take another bid on the basis of

a= the 9 card S fit

b= the double fit in the Blacks w/ a very real possibility that it's a double 9 card fit.

c= the 8 loser, 3 control hand they have. It has the playing strength of ~10 HCP on this auction.

 

A generic 1C-1S;2S-3S will not do it. Opener should pass that invite.

1C-1S;2S-3C OTOH should excite Opener into bidding 4S on the double fit w/ their 6 loser hand.

 

 

North,E/W,MP,

♠A6♥K92♦KQ76♣Q986

♠842♥J754♦T5♣AK54

 

North opened 1♦ and south bid 1♥. West overcalled 1♠ and north made a support double. East bid 2♠ and everyone passed. The contract made, declarer scoring four spades plus a ruff of a club, one diamond, and two hearts. For N/S, 3♣ would have made. Who should've bid on?

South should take another forward going call.

 

best is something like

1D-1H-(1S);X-(2S)-X

Showing 44 or 45 in H+C's and a hand at the top of the ~6-9 HCP minimum range.

S has now Told Their Story.

 

If N pulls to 3C, the most likely action here, the ♥K Asymmetric Guard is now in the hidden hand.

 

Change N's hand to something like ♠AQ♥K9x♦KQxx♣98xx, and N should seriously consider converting the Action Double to penalties.

[Foxx]

No. 1 is just unlucky. It is true that North might consider making a higher strike with his hand, but a raise to 3♠ could put you in the stew if you had ♠K8xx ♥xxx ♦Axxx ♣xx. The Brazilian experts know a lot more about getting to those games than I do.

 

No. 2 is a tricky, hairy problem. If South takes action over 2♠, he just knows he's going to hit his partner with 2-3-5-3. Meanwhile, if North takes balancing action, HE just knows he's going to hit South with 3-4-3-3. It really isn't South's place to move over 2♠. With the North hand I'd be inclined to double again, or bid 2NT if it means length in both minors. Sure, you'll get pulled into the mire of a 4-3 fit occasionally, but you guys are good declarers, right?

[jdonn]

1 is just unlucky. I can't imagine either player doing more at matchpoints, they both just had maximum hands for their bidding that fit perfectly. Good hand for that precision 3 suited short diamond thing, since then south could really push. I think it's actually quite clear that south bidding onward will result in a minus more often than reaching a good game, though at imps it's a bit closer decision.

 

2 is a bit unlucky since I don't think anyone was terrible, but if you blame anyone it has to be north since he is the one who knowingly sold out at the 2 level to the opponents' fit. Anyone who thinks south can bid over 2♠ is smoking a bit too much of the good stuff. I would have opened 1♣ as north and then south could have bid 3♣, but that is just totally random since south could easily be the other way in the minors.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 South should invite, North will accept

I understand the MP argument, but usually

bid at MP as I would bid at IMP's

I also play a style, when the raise nearly gurantees

4 card support

#2 as the auction went, the club fit got lost,

happens, next board

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[skjaeran]

Late to this post having been away at the nordic teams championships since Monday.

 

On the 1st board I'd rebid 3♦ at any form of scoring. This hand has too much potential for a mere raise IMO. There's a game bonus even at MP. :rolleyes:

 

On the 2nd board north's got to act over 2♠. You can't sell out this easy with that hand.

[Antoine Fourrière]

On hand 1, either 2♠ shows four cards and South should rebid 3♠ (not really invitational, but...) or it doesn't and North should bid 3♠.

 

On hand 2, I think North should double twice (support and then takeout).

 

<PROPAGANDA>Life would be easier with five-card major answers, wouldn't it? Oh, but wait, you can show five spades over a natural 2♣, or use the Montreal relay over 1♣.</PROPAGANDA>

[helene_t]

Board 1 is normal. I know a pair who would mini-splinter with the North hand and they would reach this game, but I'm not sure it's worth the costs in terms of describing the slightly better mini-splinter hands and in terms of ending too high when the hands don't fit that well.

 

At board 2, I think North could balance with a double. At IMPs I would pass, though.