WEAK 2-BIDS REVISITED part 1

[Double !]

The purpose of this poll is to survey people's styles regarding use of weak 2-bids in third seat as a baseline for surveying how your styles impact on your partner: what and when (with what types of hands) partner may bid or respond, and, possibly, the meaning of bids that passed hand partner might make. Another hope is to obtain information regarding whether or not you all shade your opening 1-bids in 3rd seat as well as open 5-card weak 2 bids, especially in the majors, what controls for light 3rd seat openers you use (such as some form of Drury), and how this impacts on the type of 3rd seat weak 2-bids you use.

 

(Note: I omitted 3rd seat, favorable (white vs. red) because the program required me to cut back on the number of poll options i had written, and because most people play "anything goes 3rd seat, favorable", that passed hand partner is lucky if the 3rd seat bidder has 13 cards.

 

My first bridge book was the Kaplan-Sheinwold system book back in the mid to late 60s. In their book, Mr K & Mr S recommended keeping all 1-level bids up to strength, and shading the weak 2-bids (a 5-card instead of a 6-card suit). For many years way back when, my partners and I would have the agreement that partner of the 3rd seat opener, being a passed hand, was only permitted to take a bid with good trump support, usually 4-cards, and some distribution. Unfortunately, in retrospect in my opinion, we did not play any form of Drury. (Heck, I had trouble counting to 13 much less remembering what cards had been played). I have come to the point where I am questioning whether or not this is a winning strategy in the long-run. I have also noticed so many times when passed-hand partner has competed with 3-card support and occasionally on a doubleton (using the law, expecting the 3rd seat wk 2 bidder to still have a 6-card suit) and after 3rd seat has opened a weak 2 (often with 5-bagger) and the opps competed. Ugly results often ensued.

 

I am not surveying suit quality in this poll (Years ago I knew one player whose wk 2 and 3-bids would've made Marty Bergen uncomfortable.) Instead, I am trying to focus on what passed-hand partner can expect from the 3rd seat wk-2, and what accommodations, if any, that passed hand partner might need to make.

 

As always, Thanks in Advance.

 

DHL

[pbleighton]

It shows 5 cards. Pd will generally not raise with 3.

 

Peter

[kenrexford]

You really shouldn't have four more than once a year, at most.

[Gerben42]

All Vulnerable it tends to show 6 but who would argue with KQJT9 x xxxx xxx for the lead. You may have opening values for a 3rd seat preempt if you think that you cannot make game opposite a passed hand without 3-card support.

 

If not vulnerable it shows 5 cards only. Partner should preempt one level lower than he would in 2nd seat. This is not quite "anything goes" but close.

[pbleighton]

If not vulnerable it shows 5 cards only. Partner should preempt one level lower than he would in 2nd seat. This is not quite "anything goes" but close.

 

Ohhh....so.....close....

 

:angry:

 

Peter

[rbforster]

Unfortunately we can only vote for one option in your poll, when you clearly wanted us to vote for one choice in each of the different vulnerabilities.

[whereagles]

My mins for a 2♥ are something like this..

 

NV / NV: x QJTxx xxxx xxx

NV / V: xx KQJT xxxx xxx

V / NV: x QJT9x Kxxx xxx

V /V : x QJTxxx xxx xxx

 

Maxs are:

 

V : x AKJxxx KJxx xx

NV: x AKQxx KQxx xxx

 

Basically, it's like 0-13 V and 0-15 NV, but it's really a judgement bid...

[nige1]

At match-pointed pairs, favorable vulnerability, in third seat, what else can you open with

♠ x x x x ♥ A K Q ♦ x x x ♣ x x x

[neilkaz]

I bid the same at IMPs or MPs for weak 2's (noting that I play IMPs almost exclusively now).

 

A 5 card suit in 3rd seat is OK and common unless Red vs White. If Red vs Red I need a pretty darn good 5 card suit.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[mikeh]

White v white:

 

If a 5 card suit, then not 5332 and the suit will be reasonable texture. Good opps are not significantly handicapped by a weak two most of the time, and I don't feel any need to step out against bad opps anyway.. they will self-destruct if left to their own devices. 5-4 or 5-5 are permissible shapes. I will also not usually open a 3-level preempt at this heat with a flat hand and a 6 card suit, so my 3rd seat weak two bids are often 6 cards.

 

White v Red

 

Now I tend to be more aggressive.. a lot more at mps than at imps. Again, a 5 card suit will not (usually) be 5332, but KQJTx xx xxx xxx would be an exception at all forms of scoring.

 

Red v Red

 

I will never be 5332 here: with KQJ10x xx xxx xxx, I'd be more inclined to open 1♠ than 2♠s in 3rd, but I'd usually pass. Suit quality, especially internal spot quality, becomes important as well.

 

Red v White: in 3rd chair, I will not stretch to open a weak 2 red v white. I may in fact hold up to a minimum 1st or 2nd seat opening bid, especially at mps, where I wasn't going hunting for a borderline game anyway. I will not be 5 cards red v white unless I have both a good suit and great shape.

 

I do think that a lot depends on your opponents. As Justin pointed out in another recent thread, if the opps are at a certain level, their constructive bidding is probably decent but their competitive judgment is horrendous. Against that level of opps, more aggressive weak 2's in 3rd seat rate to win both imps and mps provided that partner understands that he needs SHAPE as well as 3+ support in order to raise. At mps, when you play only a couple of boards against these opps, it is a shame to forgo the opportunity to pile up some matchpoints. At teams, unless you are in a short match in which you have had a couple of unlucky results (an aggressive slam went down on bad breaks, and the opps at the other table will lack the tools to find the 4-4 minor fit after a strong 1N, for example), a good player will rate to win unless he or she gives the match away. So at imps, it is both more dangerous and less likely to be needed than at mps.

 

OTOH, if you are an underdog at imps (or mps, for that matter), consider rolling the dice via more aggression than I outlined....again, making sure that partner understands your tendencies.

[Apollo81]

Most of the time I pretty much have the same stuff I'd preempt with in 1st chair.

 

Favorable or Allwhite-MPs are exceptions where I'll open more stuff (mainly 5 card preempts I wouldnt do in 1st chair). Favorable MPs 3rd seat I pretty much have a mandate from heaven to weak2 on whatever i feel like, though I weak2 so much crap that I rarely if ever do it on a good hand.

[BebopKid]

Work on your poll.