Trials and Tribulations...

[Guest Jlall]

In Chicago the trials to represent USA are going on right now. My teammate had this interesting problem:

 

Kxx

QT98xxxx

AK

---

 

red/white imps the auction begins

 

1C p 2N(game forcing)

 

Would you bid 3H or 4H or something else? If you bid 3H and plan on bidding again over 3N please specify.

[Apollo81]

I'd bid 4♥ and get ready to apologize if I go for 500/800.

[whereagles]

Seems like opps are gonna end up in 3NT and that doesn't rate to go down. I'm tempted into 4♥, but I'd like to know what my teammates auction would be ;)

[jdonn]

I would bid 4♥ even though I expect to go for too much, just on the offchance that either they are psyching or that partner has his few cards (if any) cards in the majors and I can fluke into a make.

 

I want to edit and add it might put LHO under pressure if as seems quite possible he holds the minors.

[mike777]

Pass

 

bidding is not over yet.

[Halo]

4H

 

Not a shiver, not a hesitation. Willing to discuss if it should have been 5H or some other distraction.

[Fluffy]

If partner has anything in clubs 3NT can be slammed, but probably he just doesn't ahve anything at all.

 

My plan is to bid 3♥ and then 4♥ over 3NT.

[skjaeran]

4♥. It might make, it might be a good save, it might steal enough room to get opps overboard..... there's a lot of good things that might happen.

 

Of course it might cost 2-3 IMPs if 500 vs a game (who cares?), it might be a phantom or I might go for 800 vs a game.

 

Maybe the downside is bigger than the upside - I really don't know. But I like to put on pressure.

[paulg]

Only worth bidding once, so I'll go for 4♥ too.

[pclayton]

Yeah, I like 4♥ too. RHO might be frothing at this, but I'll bet LHO acts with his shape. I doubt I can beat 3N, but I like my chances vs 5♣.

[Sambolino]

3h than 4h, may get xed earlier

[Halo]

3h than 4h, may get xed earlier

OK - limitless optimism?

[Double !]

Hmmm

 

I was looking at some of the hands from the RR. I believe that this was board #3.

That 1 club bid was rather light, I think you can beat 3NT. Basically if you bid 4H for a make, you are playing P to have a heart (or 2 or stiff honor, or for hearts to break 2-2) and either Spade ace or QJ. But, if P doesn't have this, then 3NT likely makes, and the question is whether or not you can hold 4H to down 1 vul. This seems like one of those "are you feeling lucky?" type of hands.

 

DHL

[Guest Jlall]

results: 3N and 4H are both makers. My teammate bid 3H and sold to 3N, not a success.

[kenrexford]

results: 3N and 4H are both makers. My teammate bid 3H and sold to 3N, not a success.

Partner's fault -- he's supposed to have KJx in hearts and clubs blocked.

[mike777]

I guess this one lost me. I passed.

 

It seems if lho bids 3nt, expected, we can always bid 4H next round.

I would think bidding 4H next round gives them just as much a problem as bidding it one round earlier.

[jdonn]

I guess this one lost me. I passed.

 

It seems if lho bids 3nt, expected, we can always bid 4H next round.

I would think bidding 4H next round gives them just as much a problem as bidding it one round earlier.

Not if LHO wanted to rebid clubs or bid a new suit.

 

Also not if he psyched his opening bid and will pass 2NT (not that I expect it, but 4♥ right away certainly solves that issue.)

 

Different question. What do you gain by passing first?

[mike777]

I guess this one lost me. I passed.

 

It seems if lho bids 3nt, expected, we can always bid 4H next round.

I would think bidding 4H next round gives them just as much a problem as bidding it one round earlier.

Not if LHO wanted to rebid clubs or bid a new suit.

 

Also not if he psyched his opening bid and will pass 2NT (not that I expect it, but 4♥ right away certainly solves that issue.)

 

Different question. What do you gain by passing first?

I would hope to learn something by shutting up and listening. :)

[jdonn]

I guess this one lost me. I passed.

 

It seems if lho bids 3nt, expected, we can always bid 4H next round.

I would think bidding 4H next round gives them just as much a problem as bidding it one round earlier.

Not if LHO wanted to rebid clubs or bid a new suit.

 

Also not if he psyched his opening bid and will pass 2NT (not that I expect it, but 4♥ right away certainly solves that issue.)

 

Different question. What do you gain by passing first?

I would hope to learn something by shutting up and listening. :)

Can you please give an example of how the auction could go that would teach you something useful to you?

[mike777]

Learned something useful from LHO bid and RHO bid after my pass.

Expected but expected is useful.

[jdonn]

Learned something useful from LHO bid and RHO bid after my pass.

Expected but expected is useful.

Please a specific example? Just one? I guess what I'm getting at is I can't think of a single way the auction could continue that would tell you anything useful to you, so I'm asking for just one measly way that could happen.

[mike777]

Learned something useful from LHO bid and RHO bid after my pass.

Expected but expected is useful.

Please a specific example? Just one? I guess what I'm getting at is I can't think of a single way the auction could continue that would tell you anything useful to you, so I'm asking for just one measly way that could happen.

This hand is a specific example of course....very specific.

 

They bid something expected than unexpected. I learned something compared to if they bid try for slam or minor suit game. Even if we assume the bidding went as expected, nothing new on this particular hand we may have on another auction than the assumed. In any case if we were going to bid 4H on previous round has anything changed? Yes or NO I learned something. IF nothing changes, that is new information for me.

[jdonn]

Learned something useful from LHO bid and RHO bid after my pass.

Expected but expected is useful.

Please a specific example? Just one? I guess what I'm getting at is I can't think of a single way the auction could continue that would tell you anything useful to you, so I'm asking for just one measly way that could happen.

This hand is a specific example of course....very specific.

 

They bid something expected than unexpected. I learned something compared to if they bid try for slam or minor suit game. Even if we assume the bidding went as expected, nothing new on this particular hand we may have on another auction than the assumed. In any case if we were going to bid 4H on previous round has anything changed? Yes or NO I learned something. IF nothing changes, that is new information for me.

I don't know if you are dodging the question or really not understanding. One specific AUCTION please that will help you later in the hand, and how it will help you, if you pass now.

[mike777]

Learned something useful from LHO bid and RHO bid after my pass.

Expected but expected is useful.

Please a specific example? Just one? I guess what I'm getting at is I can't think of a single way the auction could continue that would tell you anything useful to you, so I'm asking for just one measly way that could happen.

This hand is a specific example of course....very specific.

 

They bid something expected than unexpected. I learned something compared to if they bid try for slam or minor suit game. Even if we assume the bidding went as expected, nothing new on this particular hand we may have on another auction than the assumed. In any case if we were going to bid 4H on previous round has anything changed? Yes or NO I learned something. IF nothing changes, that is new information for me.

I don't know if you are dodging the question or really not understanding. One specific AUCTION please that will help you later in the hand, and how it will help you, if you pass now.

I answered your question in full, you seem to not understand. The expected information is as helpful as new information. Not sure how I can be more specific, oh well. I have now said this at least 3 times.

 

Let me back up, is more information helpful very often than less information?

Do you have more information with a pass? If you think you have zero more useful information than I agree pass was a wash, not hurtful.

 

Do you have useful information with a pass Josh? If not then a wash.

[jdonn]

I answered your question in full, you seem to not understand. The expected information is as helpful as new information. Not sure how I can be more specific, oh well. I have now said this at least 3 times.

 

Let me back up, is more information helpful very often than less information?

Do you have more information with a pass? If you think you have zero more useful information than I agree pass was a wash, not hurtful.

 

Do you have useful information with a pass Josh? If not then a wash.

3♣ p 3♠ is specific. "The expected information is as helpful as new information." is not specific. I give up, thanks for the enlightening discussion.