Fluffy Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 All Vul, MP, West pass-pass-pass-??? ♠KQ♥KJ109xxx♦Kxx♣x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 3♥, wtp? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 2♥, wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 2♥, wtp? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Clear 3♥. If anything the LOTT has taught us... Edit: I am very surprised that a Zar points fan could bid 2♥ here. And I am no less surprised that Frances would bid it too. The best advice I ever read about preempts was that she bids one level above the certainty. We would like to be left in 2♥ here, but since it isn't very likely that opps would leave us there, better bid 3♥ right away. Yes, it is MP, and we know for sure opps will go out of their way to compete for the part score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I'd bid 3♥ otherwise but Vul at MP it has to be 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Edit: I am very surprised that a Zar points fan could bid 2♥ here. Well, 1) I have an aceless hand. Partner will have two or fewer aces. 2) 2♥ describes a great suit in pass out seat and is not "preemptive". I tend not to preempt in the 4th seat. It is an offensive bid showing a good suit 3) After a 2♥ bid, it is still possible to reach 4♥. A 3♥ bid in 4th seat should be worth 8 sure tricks with a chance for a ninth. This hand is worth, on a good day, 6 in hearts (maybe 5 or less), 1 in spades, and if they lead ♦ up to you one in diamomds. So on a good day with a helpful lead in ♦, it is worth 8, not 9 tricks. In any other seat than 4th, I would open 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 2H, I really don't understand 3H. Of course, I think Bergen raises suck too, so I'm hopeless :P Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 2♥, but I would rebid 3♥ if they tried to play in spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I think its close between 2♥ and 3♥, but I chose 2. I think 3♥ should be a purer hand with a 7 card suit; perhaps: Ax, KQJxxxx, Kx, xx. Pard should be able to raise 3♥ to 4 with 2 cover cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 All Vul, MP, West pass-pass-pass-??? ♠KQ♥KJT9xxx♦Kxx♣x The "book bid" with this hand is 2♥ I see no reason to mastermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? Why is 2H a lie? It says 6+ hearts, I think I can make it, no slam interest, and I don't want to make it easy for the opps to find their fit. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 No, it says 6 hearts, but when people say it's the bid they want to make they change the definition to 6+ hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 No, it says 6 hearts, but when people say it's the bid they want to make they change the definition to 6+ hearts. Bunk. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? 1♥ lets the opponents overcall 1♠ or 2m. Since neither has an opening hand, they will be less inclined to double or overcall 2♠ or 3m than they would a level lower. We don't care about partner here -- we just want to play in 2 or 3♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 We don't care about partner here Ok now I see the problem. You should care, you could have game too easily, there is just no reason to misdescribe your hand. I don't understand why it's the end of the world if they overcall, my defense vs. 3♠ if they choose to bid it is very fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I do care about pard. I want him to bid one more with a suitable hand ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 We don't care about partner here Ok now I see the problem. You should care, you could have game too easily, there is just no reason to misdescribe your hand. I don't understand why it's the end of the world if they overcall, my defense vs. 3♠ if they choose to bid it is very fair. Sorry, I don't agree on these points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? Thanks, thought I was just going insane when I saw all the 2H vs 3H debate lol. BTW to me 3H shows a very good hand not something like this or close to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 A simple 1♥.Higher openings misdescribe the hand.I'm comfortable opening at the 1-level. Overcalls will just help out when I later declare some number of hearts. And I've got decent defence too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? pass-pass-pass-??? ♠KQ♥KJT9xxx♦Kxx♣x Justin, Intermediate 2's are Standard in 4th seat. We have a flawed 12 count (no A's, KQ tight). That leaves 28 Highs for the rest of the table and since no one opened or preeempted the odds are good that everyone has unexceptional 9 counts (1/3 CHO has an unexceptional 10 count.) We have 3 controls. 3N or 4M requires 7+ usually. If CHO had 4 controls, the odds go up that they would have an opening bid. Thus the percentages are that the remaining 4 A's + 1 K are more or less evenly split around the table. The odds of Us having a Game do not look good. This looks like a partscore hand. We only have 2 S's. CHO did not bid S's, so the odds that They have S's and not Us is reasonably high. Opening 1♥ looks like it rates to make things too easy for the opponents. Opening 2♥ is both practical and darn close to dead on as a description of our likely trick taking strength in this seat (the extra trump balances out the KQ tight.) Heck, @ IMPs I might open this 3♥. Especially if They are Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? pass-pass-pass-??? ♠KQ♥KJT9xxx♦Kxx♣x Justin, Intermediate 2's are Standard in 4th seat. We have a flawed 12 count (no A's, KQ tight). That leaves 28 Highs for the rest of the table and since no one opened or preeempted the odds are good that everyone has unexceptional 9 counts (1/3 CHO has an unexceptional 10 count.) We have 3 controls. 3N or 4M requires 7+ usually. If CHO had 4 controls, the odds go up that they would have an opening bid. Thus the percentages are that the remaining 4 A's + 1 K are more or less evenly split around the table. The odds of Us having a Game do not look good. This looks like a partscore hand. We only have 2 S's. CHO did not bid S's, so the odds that They have S's and not Us is reasonably high. Opening 1♥ looks like it rates to make things too easy for the opponents. Opening 2♥ is both practical and darn close to dead on as a description of our likely trick taking strength in this seat (the extra trump balances out the KQ tight.) Heck, @ IMPs I might open this 3♥. Especially if They are Red.As usual you have offered a lot of analysis, most of which is to put it bluntly wrong or irrelevent. For example You don't need as many controls as usual for game when you have a 7 card suit. This should be patently obvious. Having more hearts than your bid shows doesn't "balance out" having a KQ tight, since when do two wrongs make a right? Having 2 features that are undesirable for a bid make it even less desirable, not back to where you started. The opponents are <50% to have 8 or more spades. They are in fact even slightly less likely than the odds would suggest since more hands open light in 3rd seat with spade length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much? Thanks, thought I was just going insane when I saw all the 2H vs 3H debate lol. BTW to me 3H shows a very good hand not something like this or close to this. If the queen was in hearts instead of spades with the same shape I would think 3♥ is right. Is that not a good enough hand to you? Good for me to know anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 We don't care about partner here Ok now I see the problem. You should care, you could have game too easily, there is just no reason to misdescribe your hand. I don't understand why it's the end of the world if they overcall, my defense vs. 3♠ if they choose to bid it is very fair. I can buy that this hand may be too strong for 2♥. I do not agree that this hand contains better defense than would be expected for a 2♥ opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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