Discussion hand

[pclayton]

I hosted a Q and A session after the afternoon game today. From the 24 boards that were played I thought a chose a pretty interesting hand to start off the discussion:

 

You hold as South at Pairs (opps are vul; you are not):

 

[hv=s=saq3hkqdk3ckj8753]133|100|[/hv]

 

RHO opens 1♣ - your call?

 

I'll continue this hand on another thread.

[Guest Jlall]

there is a lot of merit passing when they're vul but I think I'd just bid 1N.

[P_Marlowe]

A natural 2C bid would be great,

in case it is not available 1 bid 1NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Yes, with the given vulnerability Pass

makes sense, but on the other hand, I will

have trouble getting my hand across,

if responder does not pass.

[whereagles]

It looks as if the following will happen:

 

(1♣) 1NT (pass) pass

pass

 

(1♣) . 1NT (pass) 2♦/♥

(pass) 2♥/♠ (pass) pass

(pass)

 

or

 

(1♣) pass (1M) pass

(2M) 3♣ (pass) pass

(pass)

 

(1♣) pass (1M) pass

(1NT) 2♣ (pass) pass

(pass)

 

I think I might prefer to play 2/3♣, so I'll pass for the moment :rolleyes:

[Fluffy]

I remember a post where it was said that it is better to pass when you have lenght on their suit than bidding 1NT.

 

That was a 1♥ opening, so I don't know if that principle still applies, I would pass.

[hatchett]

I would bid 1NT, somehow things never seem to go the way you want if you pass in this type of situation.

[whereagles]

I remember a post where it was said that it is better to pass when you have lenght on their suit than bidding 1NT.

 

That was a 1♥ opening, so I don't know if that principle still applies, I would pass.

I don't think so. 1♥ shows 5 cards. 1♣ could be 3....

[jtfanclub]

A natural 2C bid would be great,

in case it is not available 1 bid 1NT.

Agreed, and I do play a natural 2C bid with some partners.

[pclayton]

I'm a big believer in passing with these types of hands at these colors. There aren't a lot of continuations that are embarrassing. If it gets passed out, you are very happy collecting 100 a trick as pard cannot balance and RHO is marked with some strength. If pard balances with a double, you are in rapture. If pard balances with some overcall, you can get to 3N (or 4♠) easily enough).

 

If the opps bid, overcalling 2♣ later is sensible. While it does not imply a hand this strong, this hand is a pretty ugly 18 count.

 

If RHO competes with 1N, this is a great penalty double, especially if LHO is prone to respond on very weak hands with club shortness.

 

Only the auction (1♣) - pass - (1♥) - pass - (2♥) really creates problems for us. A 1N overcall may have 'preempted' them out of their 4-4 fit, but thats certainly not a good reason for overcalling 1N. I supposed I would take my medicine and pass 2♥ if that happened.

 

The call I really hate is double. Even if you treat this hand as 'too strong' for a 1N overcall (it isn't), it really distorts your holding.

[Guest Jlall]

If we pass and then X 1N that wont be a penalty X unless you are very old. I thought "everyone" played 1C p 1H p 1N X as takeout now.

 

If we pass and then bid 2C, what was the point of passing? If we pass our goal should be to defend and get multiple undertricks, not to later compete to 2C. I would much rather play 1N than 2C, especially when by bidding 1N I can preserve partners ability to compete with a long suit and a weak hand or partners ability to try for game if we happen to have one. My clubs are bad and they have been bid by my RHO.

 

Again, I dont think pass is bad but if your plan is to later bid 2C I really really don't like it. If your plan is to pass throughout then I can see the merit.

[pclayton]

If we pass and then X 1N that wont be a penalty X unless you are very old. I thought "everyone" played 1C p 1H p 1N X as takeout now.

 

If we pass and then bid 2C, what was the point of passing? If we pass our goal should be to defend and get multiple undertricks, not to later compete to 2C. I would much rather play 1N than 2C, especially when by bidding 1N I can preserve partners ability to compete with a long suit and a weak hand or partners ability to try for game if we happen to have one. My clubs are bad and they have been bid by my RHO.

 

Again, I dont think pass is bad but if your plan is to later bid 2C I really really don't like it. If your plan is to pass throughout then I can see the merit.

Not sure what you are saying here. I want to pass and defend clubs. If the auction develops differently, I will compete with clubs if necessary.

 

I am old fahioned I guess. I cant think of a lot of auctions that I want to make a TOx after 1C - pass - 1 grape - pass - 1N -? This is a no fit auction and we want to compete after we had the chance to bid over 1c. I can see a penalty x here though with this hand type.

[jtfanclub]

I am old fahioned I guess. I cant think of a lot of auctions that I want to make a TOx after 1C - pass - 1 grape - pass - 1N -?

How would you bid a 12 count 1-4-4-4, after a 1♣-1♠-1NT auction? Or would you make a call before that? Say,

 

x KJxx ATxx KJxx

[whereagles]

justin, not all dbls are for take-out, even if you're young.. lol

[helene_t]

Might be usefull to know how likely LHO is to respond to 1♣ with a very weak hand. If defending 1♣ is a realistic option, I'd go for it.

[pclayton]

I am old fahioned I guess. I cant think of a lot of auctions that I want to make a TOx after 1C - pass - 1 grape - pass - 1N -?

How would you bid a 12 count 1-4-4-4, after a 1♣-1♠-1NT auction? Or would you make a call before that? Say,

 

x KJxx ATxx KJxx

Why on earth would I want to get involved with this hand in a live auction?