Pick a contract

[Fluffy]

♠KQJ742

♥KQJ4

♦5

♣K4

 

 

S - N

1♠-2♣

2♥-3♣*

3♠-3NT

4♣-4♥

??

 

 

3♣*= Limit, NON FORCING (10-11 or so)

[whereagles]

Why didn't you pass 3NT? A 10-11 hcp pard can't have 3 aces, can he?

 

Now I guess I bid 5♣ :)

[pbleighton]

I passed 3NT the previous round, since I have a aceless 15 count opposite a 10-11 count, without a fit for my 6 or 4 card suits, and because i ntrust my partner.

 

If I had had a brain fart and bid 4C (not 5C?), I would now trust partner and pass.

 

Peter

[whereagles]

If I had had a brain fart and bid 4C (not 5C?), I would now trust partner and pass.

Actually, I think pard is cueing his ♥A. From his point of view, you should have the same hand plus the ♠A :)

[Fluffy]

Why didn't you pass 3NT? A 10-11 hcp pard can't have 3 aces, can he?

 

Now I guess I bid 5♣ :)

Give partner ♣AQ and a ♦ honnor and tell me where you will find 9 tricks, I count only 7, give him 3 aces and still 7 tricks.

[mcphee]

One of the bids partner could have made rather than 3C was 2N. Now that partner has stressed his 6th C I do not think 3NT can be the winning spot. It really sounds like partner has 6-3-3-1 shape with only 1 spade. It's my feeling that a 10 or 11 trick contract has a better chance than the 9 trick 3N, and none are a sure thing.

 

I vote for 4S I did not have the balls to pass 4H which might have been the last make. If dear partner would like to bid 5C, be my guest.

[SoTired]

4S. Give partner a chance to pass. 4H will do poorly for the same reason that 3N would have done poorly. Diams are going to kill us. We will get tapped in diam and get in trump trouble. This is not the right hand for a 4-3 fit. If we assume partner has 2 of the 4 missing aces, partner's best hand is something like x xxx Axx AQJxxx. Do you want to play 3N or 4H with that dummy on a diam lead?

 

Now how about 4S? We have to knock out 2 aces, but we're OK! We lose 2♠ and 1♥. We can even handle things if partner is a little worse, say x xxx KQx AJxxxx. If partner has the stiff ♠10 or we get a 3-3 spade break, we can make 4S.

 

What about 5C? If partner has x xxx Axx AQJxxx, 5C is OK. But if partner has 10 xxx KQx AJxxxx, then 5C has no chance.

 

So 4S it is.

[mikeh]

4S. Give partner a chance to pass. 4H will do poorly for the same reason that 3N would have done poorly. Diams are going to kill us. We will get tapped in diam and get in trump trouble. This is not the right hand for a 4-3 fit. If we assume partner has 2 of the 4 missing aces, partner's best hand is something like x xxx Axx AQJxxx. Do you want to play 3N or 4H with that dummy on a diam lead?

 

Now how about 4S? We have to knock out 2 aces, but we're OK! We lose 2♠ and 1♥. We can even handle things if partner is a little worse, say x xxx KQx AJxxxx. If partner has the stiff ♠10 or we get a 3-3 spade break, we can make 4S.

 

What about 5C? If partner has x xxx Axx AQJxxx, 5C is OK. But if partner has 10 xxx KQx AJxxxx, then 5C has no chance.

 

So 4S it is.

agree

[Winstonm]

4S. Give partner a chance to pass. 4H will do poorly for the same reason that 3N would have done poorly. Diams are going to kill us. We will get tapped in diam and get in trump trouble. This is not the right hand for a 4-3 fit. If we assume partner has 2 of the 4 missing aces, partner's best hand is something like x xxx Axx AQJxxx. Do you want to play 3N or 4H with that dummy on a diam lead?

 

Now how about 4S? We have to knock out 2 aces, but we're OK! We lose 2♠ and 1♥. We can even handle things if partner is a little worse, say x xxx KQx AJxxxx. If partner has the stiff ♠10 or we get a 3-3 spade break, we can make 4S.

 

What about 5C? If partner has x  xxx Axx AQJxxx, 5C is OK. But if partner has 10 xxx KQx AJxxxx, then 5C has no chance.

 

So 4S it is.

agree

If this is the case, shouldn't we have bid 4S over 3N? Problem with the auction now is everyone is guessing whether bids are suggestions to play, forcing cue bids, or just keeping the action going because everyone is lost.

[pclayton]

I'll pass.

 

I don't think 4♥ is a choice of game; I think it is a cue in case I have a monstrous hand.

 

3 possible hands for pard:

 

1. ♠x ♥Ax ♦QJxx ♣ATxxxx

 

2. ♠void ♥Axx ♦KQxx ♣QT9xxx

 

3. ♠x ♥Axx ♦KJx ♣QJxxxx

 

Across from 1, 3N was our best spot, but we missed it.

 

With 2, 4♥ plays OK, but 5♣ looks rather touchy.

 

With 3, 4♥ or 4♠ are OK - maybe 4♥ is a shade better. 3N is an underdog.

 

I think I would have passed 3N. You can construct hands that make 5♣ better, but it seems unlikely.

 

I'm not that concerned about getting tapped out; pard has at least one diamond stop which will counter this.

[whereagles]

4S. Give partner a chance to pass.

Are u sure you're on the same wavelength as pard? As far as pard can tell, opener's auction shows a monster 6412 and his 4♠ now would be just a cue (or last train if you play that). I think there's no way he's gonna pass 4♠.

[whereagles]

Why didn't you pass 3NT? A 10-11 hcp pard can't have 3 aces, can he?

 

Now I guess I bid 5♣ :)

Give partner ♣AQ and a ♦ honnor and tell me where you will find 9 tricks, I count only 7, give him 3 aces and still 7 tricks.

Ok, if that's your evaluation of the hand, just bid 5♣, not 4 :)

[mike777]

I do not understand why partner would rebid 3clubs and not 2nt with excellent Diamonds and lousy 6 clubs. Partner rebid 3clubs he has excellent 6 clubs.

 

I would not have bid 4clubs over 3nt. Bidding 5clubs over 3nt if one must.

[han]

4S, good auction.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would have passed 3NT.

 

3S followed by 4C does not really fit together,

I would say 3S is nonforcing (e.g. 6-4-3-0) and

4C is choice of games / a slam try?

Because 3C and 3S are nonforcing, I would say

that 4H simply shows a 3 carder with and top

honor (has to be the Ace).

 

Having bid the way I did, I would say, I bid 4S,

better to play the 6-1 fit then the 4-3 fit.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[han]

If 3S is NF then 4C is clear as COG. Having said that I think it is not practical to play 3S as NF.

[Mcauley]

would pass 3nt, if not 4s final

[jdonn]

Our auction is clearly looking for the best game, not a slam try. If we were looking for slam in clubs we would never bid 3♠, we would have raised 3♣ to 4♣. It is important for responder to consider things like that.

 

4♠ now seems logical, it might be that no game is good but spades will always have a chance even opposite a singleton, so at least it won't be hopeless. I think 5♣ is too likely to find us off 3 aces, and anyway if partner has a spade void he won't pass as we didn't bid 4♠ over 3NT.

 

I agree with the earlier decision to pull 3NT. I am just worried about the lack of aces, if we have one diamond stopper they will knock it out, and we may run clubs but that's it before they get in again.

[Impact]

If 3S is NF then 4C is clear as COG. Having said that I think it is not practical to play 3S as NF.

I agree with your conclusion - and would not play 3S as n-f.

 

However if looking for COG here - why not 4D over 3NT - which is the bid I would have made.

 

I would have assumed that 4C is a strong move setting C (not as strong as 4D jump over 3C, which is either Kickback or some form of cue/splinter by agreement).

 

Once you failed to bid 4D over 3NT, I consider 5C is now foisted upon you as partner SHOULD take 4S as a further cue agreeing C....

 

regards,

[mikeh]

If partner is slamming, then 4♥ was a cue, but we're ok if and when I bid 4♠ anyway: I can't want to play there opposite void Axx QJx Axxxxxx... I would never have pulled 3N to 4♣ if I did. So he'll bid over 4♠ if he intended 4♥ as a cue....

 

This sounds like one of those auctions that we all have (or is it only me?) where we are not entirely sure what is going on, but, if we're lucky, we'll end on our feet.

 

Edit: I meant to add that even if he is slamming, he can't have a hand that could bid 6♣ over 4♠ even if he felt that it showed the A. We have too many internal major honours and the ♣K, and he has limited his hand. The most he can do is bid 5♣. See the above example, and make it x Ax QJx Axxxxxx and I don't think he can afford to bid 6♣ anyway...

[Winstonm]

Our auction is clearly looking for the best game, not a slam try. If we were looking for slam in clubs we would never bid 3♥, we would have raised 3♣ to 4♣. It is important for responder to consider things like that.

 

I am aware of many players who would consider 3H followed by 4C as an advance cue bid and a slam try. I am not saying I disagree with you or that your method is not superior, but to make a blanket statement that all players bid this way is not valid.

[Foxx]

I meant to add that even if he is slamming, he can't have a hand that could bid 6♣ over 4♠ even if he felt that it showed the A.

And even then, he could have ♠--- ♥10xx ♦Axxx ♣AQ10xxx and we may well survive.

 

I will admit to initially voting for 4♥ (pass), but upon reading the thread, removing back to 4♠ makes sense. It makes me queasy to think about playing this hand in a 4-3 fit.

[jdonn]

Our auction is clearly looking for the best game, not a slam try. If we were looking for slam in clubs we would never bid 3♥, we would have raised 3♣ to 4♣. It is important for responder to consider things like that.

 

I am aware of many players who would consider 3H followed by 4C as an advance cue bid and a slam try. I am not saying I disagree with you or that your method is not superior, but to make a blanket statement that all players bid this way is not valid.

It is your criticism that is not valid, except for my typo where I said 3♥ but obviously meant 3♠ (my post is now corrected). I am saying what the bids should mean, not what every person would do. Playing that bid as an advance cuebid (meaning natural but can turn out later to have instead been a cuebid) can be conclusively demonstrated to be unplayable, since if partner 'raises' to 4♠ and we next bid 5♣ it is impossible to tell which suit is trumps and which is the cuebid. My post was (sans typo) both true and valid.

[foo]

♠KQJ742♥KQJ4♦5♣K4

 

S - N

1♠-2♣;2♥-3♣*;3♠-3N;4♣-4♥;??

 

3♣*= Limit, NON FORCING (10-11 or so)

"3♣*= Limit, NON FORCING (10-11 or so)"

 

^Lot's of folks seem to be forgetting this^

 

The OP's auction is not happening at my table.

 

I am !not! going slamming when I have 3 controls and CHO rates to only have 3-4 controls. Nor am I drawing out this auction longer than absolutely required (Why help the defense more than we have to?)

 

The limit of Our hands rates to be Game

I do not like Our ♦'s in NT after 1S-2C;2H-3C;??

OTOH, I have a trump suit that will play for 1 loser opposite a stiff x.

 

My bid on the 3rd auction round is 4♠. To Play.

[inquiry]

4♠'s... i supported clubs last round, so if partner can't stand spades, we shall here him correct to 5♣, although i have to admit this auction might be taken as a slam try, and that would not be good.