11 red cards

[gwnn]

Team match with not very good opposition (if it matters).

 

You deal and pick up NV/NV the following beauty: [hv=d=s&v=n&s=shakt9xdkj87xxckx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Bidding proceeds

 

1♥-1♠

3♦-3♠

 

1♥ is 10-14, 5+. system doesn't allow for 1♦ opening <= denies a 5cM.

1♠ can have at most 13 hcp, therefore it's (in theory) NF. it specifically denies 3 or more carded heart support. should have at least 6-7 hcp.

3♦ shows 55 or better, maximum hand

 

this is where the system ends. 3♠ is undiscussed. you have to assume partner knows what he is doing.

 

What would you do?

[Echognome]

Find the misfit and pass.

 

We have described our hand pretty well. Partner has less than GF values. So let's hope he can make 3♠.

[jtfanclub]

What would 2♠ have meant over 1♥?

[Fluffy]

Partner is giving us an alternative game, ♠ doesn'trate to play very well, I'd bid 3NT and hope it has a chance

[mike777]

Team match with not very good opposition (if it matters).

 

You deal and pick up NV/NV the following beauty: <!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> None </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> AKT9x </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> KJ87xx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> Kx </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

 

Bidding proceeds

 

1♥-1♠

3♦-3♠

 

1♥ is 10-14, 5+. system doesn't allow for 1♦ opening <= denies a 5cM.

1♠ can have at most 13 hcp, therefore it's (in theory) NF. it specifically denies 3 or more carded heart support. should have at least 6-7 hcp.

3♦ shows 55 or better, maximum hand

 

this is where the system ends. 3♠ is undiscussed. you have to assume partner knows what he is doing.

 

 

 

What would you do?

I do not understand any bid other than pass, but I see others are bidding again. :)

 

No one made a forcing bid in this auction.

1) You promised 13-14 hcp, check

2) you promised 5 hearts, check

3) you promised 5+d, check

4) you promised zero+ spades, check.

[han]

Whatever you did, make sure you agree on such auctions for the future.

 

I pass.

[Halo]

I voted for 4♦.

 

I have eleven red cards with more diamonds than hearts, and a spade void. I don't want us to play in spades.

[jdonn]

Unless 3♠ is forcing, which I see no reason to believe, then bidding is criminal. I have described my strength and the main features of my shape. Misfits PASS as soon as possible, otherwise the auction becomes a runaway unstoppable train with everyone trying to make things better as they get worse and worse.

[bid_em_up]

I vote for opening 1D.

[jdonn]

system doesn't allow for 1♦ opening <= denies a 5cM.

[bid_em_up]

system doesn't allow for 1♦ opening <= denies a 5cM.

Missed that. Thx.

[jdonn]

NP or else I'd open 1♦ too of course.

[gwnn]

1♥-2♠=

 

fit jump.

 

actually, this is I think a two part question:

 

what does/should partner promise with this rebid? of course we shall discuss this, but it's I think an interesting question.

[jdeegan]

Unless 3♠ is forcing, which I see no reason to believe, then bidding is criminal. I have described my strength and the main features of my shape. Misfits PASS as soon as possible, otherwise the auction becomes a runaway unstoppable train with everyone trying to make things better as they get worse and worse.

:) This answer says it all.

[Codo]

IF 3 Spade is non forcing, how can you play 3 NT if responder is missing a club stopper?

If 3 Spade is non forcing, do you need to bid 4 Club with any given hand that has 12+ hcps and no clear goal?

If 3 Spade is non forcing, why didn´t he pass 3 Diamond or corrected to 3 Heart? If I may quote:Misfits PASS as soon as possible ? Pd had 2 possiblilities to pass but choose to bid.

 

So without discussion I would never think that 3 ♠ was non forcing.

Maybe you can answer all the questions above and play 3 ♠ non forcing afterwards, but I won´t believe that it is a good bet to think that it is nf a priori.

[Echognome]

IF 3 Spade is non forcing, how can you play 3 NT if responder is missing a club stopper?

If 3 Spade is non forcing, do you need to bid 4 Club with any given hand that has 12+ hcps and no clear goal?

If 3 Spade is non forcing, why didn´t he pass 3 Diamond or corrected to 3 Heart? If I may quote:Misfits PASS as soon as possible ? Pd had 2 possiblilities to pass but choose to bid.

 

So without discussion I would never think that 3 ♠ was non forcing.

Maybe you can answer all the questions above and play 3 ♠ non forcing afterwards, but I won´t believe that it is a good bet to think that it is nf a priori.

All fine clues my dear Watson. However, you have forgotten about the dog that didn't bark in the night. As you see, my friend from Romania had not forced to game over the limited opening. He had, indeed, limited his own hand as responder to 13 points or less. Thus, 3♠ (as 1♠) could not be forcing.

[whereagles]

There are hands where 4♦ will play better than 3♠, but that's a risk I'm not willing to take.

 

Pass

[Fluffy]

Matt, I don't agree with that, he bid a non forcing 1♠ but that doesn't mena he cannot have 11-12 HCP, combined with what we ahve shown that means we are at game range.

[inquiry]

Playing normal standard, I would pass 3♠...unless 1♥=2♠ would have been preemptive, in which case I would think 3♠ here is forcing. Since it was stated 2♠ would be fit jump, then surely pass of 3♠ is right.

 

If I was playing misiry, I would have opened 2NT -- which is either weak club preempt, or a strong two suiter that includes a heart suit, and denies the second suit is clubs. Playing misiry on this hand, we can play 3 of either red suit or 4♠, never 3♠. That is a weakness of Misiry if 3♠ is the best spot. The auction most likely would have gone, 2nt-3c-3d (red two suiter, 4 "losers", 1 in hearts, 2 in diamonds, 1 in clubs..of course can lose a lot more than that). Over 3♦, respnder can pass or correct to 3♥, but not get out in spades anymore.

[marcD]

Playing 3S seems too narrow a target and i could be cold for 6D . So pass is out . choice is between 3NT and 4D . I choose 4D as my hand has slow tricks. If partner cue bids 5C i bid 6D, over 4S i'll pass (i would assume 4H is not to play and will bid 5D)

[jdonn]

IF 3 Spade is non forcing, how can you play 3 NT if responder is missing a club stopper?

Well for one thing, this is the only auction where it's even a problem. On all others (1♥ 1♠ 3♣, 1♦ 1♥ 3♣, 1♦ 1♠ 3♣) the 4th suit is available below 3NT which makes things easier.

For another, if responder doesn't have a club stopper then it's unlikely (of course possible though) that you belong in 3NT opposite 10 red cards. If opener had very strong clubs like - KJxxx Axxxx AQT then the 3♦ rebid was wrong for just this reason, he can see his partner won't be able to bid 3NT over that.

If 3 Spade is non forcing, do you need to bid 4 Club with any given hand that has 12+ hcps and no clear goal?

If you are referring to having slam interest, you are limited to 13 and opener is limited to 14. How often are you going to be looking for slam here?

If you are referring to choice of games (essentially meaning something like 6232 game forcing), then yes 4♣ seems to do the trick quite nicely.

If 3 Spade is non forcing, why didn´t he pass 3 Diamond or corrected to 3 Heart?

Because he is 7114?

If I may quote:Misfits PASS as soon as possible ? Pd had 2 possiblilities to pass but choose to bid.

Firstly, partner bidding 3♠ was the first point at which anyone knew the auction was a misfit. For all he knew you had spade support. Secondly, he didn't increase the level of the auction, but us continuing to look for a fit would.

So without discussion I would never think that 3 ♠ was non forcing.

Maybe you can answer all the questions above and play 3 ♠ non forcing afterwards, but I won´t believe that it is a good bet to think that it is nf a priori.

We have two limited hands, one of which has described itself very accurately, and the other rebids its only suit at the lowest level. Short of having an agreement to otherwise, this is as nonforcing as it gets.

[mike777]

Amazing more than 50% choose to bid on.

 

What hand are you gals/guys giving responder here? Why?

[Echognome]

Matt, I don't agree with that, he bid a non forcing 1♠ but that doesn't mena he cannot have 11-12 HCP, combined with what we ahve shown that means we are at game range.

Good point. I guess it's down to being an impossible question without agreeing on methods.

[Halo]

Amazing more than 50% choose to bid on.

 

What hand are you gals/guys giving responder here? Why?

My partner has something like:

 

KQxxxx

Qx

Ax

xxx

 

give or take a Jack or some texture with tens or nines - this hand is my impression of his minimum.

 

It's bidding, it's a language and there are many dialects. I don't want to play spades opposite partner on the hand I hold.

 

OK he could be 7204 say. I don't 'simulate' for my next bid based on freaks.

 

For me my 1H...3D sounds fairly encouraging. But I'm not accepting partner's suggestion to play 4S with my Hx because I'm void.

 

So I bid rightly or wrongly.

[mike777]

Amazing more than 50% choose to bid on.

 

What hand are you gals/guys giving responder here? Why?

My partner has something like:

 

KQxxxx

Qx

Ax

xxx

 

give or take a Jack or some texture with tens or nines - this hand is my impression of his minimum.

 

It's bidding, it's a language and there are many dialects. I don't want to play spades opposite partner on the hand I hold.

 

OK he could be 7204 say. I don't 'simulate' for my next bid based on freaks.

 

For me my 1H...3D sounds fairly encouraging. But I'm not accepting partner's suggestion to play 4S with my Hx because I'm void.

 

So I bid rightly or wrongly.

ok, given this system, I would never rebid 3S with that hand example