2-way checkback question

[han]

Suppose you play 2-way checkback and the auction goes 1D-1H-1NT-2C-2D(forced)-3C(invitational). Does this show 4-5 or 5-5?

 

I think it could show either, I wouldn't want to be forced to bid 2H any time I am 5-5. But this may make it very tough for opener to evaluate, some hands will play well in 4H but badly in 3NT.

 

Would it make sense to break the puppet to 2D with minimal hands that have 3-card support for the major? If so then this problem is solved. After 3C opener either has a maximum or no heart support.

 

As far as I can see the disadvantage is that you sometimes play in an inferior 2H contract when responder was planning to drop in 2D. Are there other disadvantages? How do you deal with this problem?

[Guest Jlall]

Yeah, I play 3C is 4-5 and 2H can be 5-5. Not perfect, but the worst thing that happens is you play 2H in a 5-2 instead of 3C opposite a minimum, but then you will probably make 2H. I dont think 3C as either 4-5 or 5-5 is playable.

 

Some people like hamman play that you always show your 3 card support though, that is a very playable method.

[han]

Hmm, in Hamman's style opener bids 2M with any strength? That means that responder won't be able to pass with a marginal invitational hand.

[awm]

With most of my partners I frequently raise 1M to 2M with three-card support, even if balanced, unless 4333 shape. This tends to eliminate the problem mentioned here. Basically 2♣ and then 3♣ is either 4-5 or 5-5 with a weak major. Keeping in mind that partner would normally have raised 1M response to 2M holding 3 trumps (especially 3 good trumps) it's very unlikely that we play 3♣ when we belong in 2M.

 

Of course, if you'd virtually never raise to 2M with three trumps and a balanced hand I can see what the problem was. Perhaps you can reject the puppet to say "if Adam held my hand, he would've raised your 1M response." :)

[cherdano]

With most of my partners I frequently raise 1M to 2M with three-card support, even if balanced, unless 4333 shape. This tends to eliminate the problem mentioned here. Basically 2♣ and then 3♣ is either 4-5 or 5-5 with a weak major. Keeping in mind that partner would normally have raised 1M response to 2M holding 3 trumps (especially 3 good trumps) it's very unlikely that we play 3♣ when we belong in 2M.

 

Of course, if you'd virtually never raise to 2M with three trumps and a balanced hand I can see what the problem was. Perhaps you can reject the puppet to say "if Adam held my hand, he would've raised your 1M response." :)

While it is true this reduces the problem you still don't want to play 3C on a 5-2 fit, especially when you have a 5-3 heart fit. Hamman's style eliminates this problem, Justin's too.

[fred]

As far as I can tell, there is no perfect solution to this problem, but here are some thoughts:

 

1) Use responder's 3C rebid as invitational and denying 5H while going through 2C->2D then 3C to promise 5 hearts. This might leave you with no way to sign off in the 3C (since many play that the 3C rebid is a signoff). In that case you can use responder's 2NT rebid as a puppet to 3C (which has further advantages in that responder can then describe various other types of hands if he bids again after the 3C puppet) and bid 2C->2D then 2NT to invite in notrump.

 

I don't play this myself, but it makes some sense to me (not that I have given it any serious thought).

 

Even with the fancy 2NT convention (which I play), however, you have to give up something to play this as many pairs who use this method define responder's 3C rebid as a 5-5 game force (which I play). Yes, you can start with 2D on such hands, but it is nice to be able to describe such hands immediately.

 

2) If you play "Reverse Flannery Responses" there is a good solution when responder's suit is spades: bid 2H over 1NT to describe a hand with 5 spades, 4+ clubs, and invitational values. If you have an invitational hand with club support and have only 4 spades you can bid 2C->2D then 3C.

 

This I actually play and as far as I can tell there is no real downside (except having to remember it of course).

 

3) If you play that 1m-1H-1NT denies 4S, then you can make use of opener's 2S rebid in various ways. You can even do this if 1NT could contain 4 spades, but you will create addition problems for yourself in this case.

 

For me 1NT could contain 4 spades and I use the 2S rebid to describe an invitational hand with 4-4 in the majors (2C->2D then 2S with 4-5 in the majors).

 

In my regular partnership we use the Jlall approach when responder's suit is hearts. In the context of our system this is the least of evils solution (at least I think it is).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Elianna]

While it is true this reduces the problem you still don't want to play 3C on a 5-2 fit, especially when you have a 5-3 heart fit. Hamman's style eliminates this problem, Justin's too.

What Adam is saying is that in his style, if you rebid 1NT and have only two clubs, it is IMPOSSIBLE that you have 3 hearts, since you would have raised hearts initially in Adam's style.

 

And his suggestion is that even if you wouldn't raise hearts initially with three, you can refuse to bid 2D, and bid 2H with three (by agreement).