Opening 2 major with 4 cards and 5 or 6 in a minor

[pbleighton]

My experience in tournaments has been that people play these conventions for the "ambush value" of them.

 

How do you know what their motivations are?

 

Do you read minds, or do you just enjoy insulting people who play methods which you are unfamiliar with?

 

Peter

[hrothgar]

I must play in a different circle. Not many people I play against play Mini-Roman

 

My question for the exotics is do you bother to pre alert and list reasonable suggested defenses? My experience in tournaments has been that people play these conventions for the "ambush value" of them. These methods are generally outlawed by the ACBL (which I am usually no friend of) as they are destructive. If you think about it, there is really not much of a need for opening some of these bids except for the fact that I am sure they are successful against LOL's.

What a load of crap:

 

First and foremost, take a good look at the method that started this discussion. The player wants to use a 2M to show ~10 - 16 HCP with 4 cards in the bid major and a longer minor. If your goal is simply to screw over the opponents, you would hardly be playing anything this innocuous. Normally, when I encounter these types of 2M openings, they're in the context of some kind of strong club system where the player is unable to open 1♣ with the hand pattern. These bids are used to complement other parts of the constructive opening structure. The fact that you (apparently) can't distinguish between a constructive opening and some of the nastier preempts out there really doesn't incline one to listen to the rest of your arguments.

 

Second: There are a number of people (myself included) who believe that making life difficult on the opponents is an important part of system design. I am more than happy to provide complete disclosure regarding my opening structures. In all honesty, I think that I can (and do) provide much better descriptions of my openings than most pairs who are "just playing bridge". At the same time, I am more than happy to design and use methods which are a royal pain in the butt to defend against.

Regretfully, some folks seem to believe that convention regulations are intended to make the world safe for inferior bidding methods...

[Wackojack]

Yes the 2M opening bids are permitted by the EBU (actually level 2 according to the Orange Book) What i wanted to do was devise a system which improved on the Polish Club. The opening 2M was not devised as destructive weapon but to fit in with with the other bits. The general aim was to get all opening hands described within tight limits at least by the first rebid allowing responder to take control.

 

 

These are the opening bids:

 

1c Strong 17+, or 11-13 with a 4 card major (balanced or any 4441)

1d 11-16 with no 4-card major (or 6d + 5M)

1h/s 11-16 at least 5cards

1NT 14-16 balanced

2c 11-16, 6 cards with no 4 card major

2d 5-9, 6 card major or minor suit near game hand

2h/s 11-16, 4 major + 5 or 6 cards in minor

2NT 20-21 balanced

 

The 11-16 range for the 2h/s opening is uncomfortably large, but in practice is 11-15 since 16 point hands with a 6 card minor and many with a 5 card minor could be uprated to to 17+ for a 1c opening.

 

My initial thought on responses were more or less as given Ulven, hrothgar and Gerben (thanks). But now i think it better to step the responses to distinguish between 5 and 6 card minor thus:

3c = min 5m

3d = min 6m

3h = max 5m

3s = max 6m

next step which minor then step 1= clubs, step 2 = diamonds, except after 3s where you just cue and find out

[jtfanclub]

Wow that's a tight 1♦, am I correct that it's at least 5 cards except 4 diamonds and 5 clubs?

 

EDIT: I guess not, since you have no other way to open a 3343 12 count.

 

I guess if you were going to play in a GCC event, you'd have to include 5+ diamonds and a 4 card major in there, and have 2♥ & 2♠ be a 4 card major and 5+ clubs, which is listed as GCC legal.

[awm]

I would think that knowing the second suit is actually pretty important. There would seem to be cases where:

 

(1) Responder wants to be in game if his fitting cards in diamonds are working, but only has an invite opposite major+clubs.

 

(2) Responder wants to play 3NT opposite major+diamonds but prefers 5♣ or 4M opposite major+clubs.

 

These both prioritize finding out what the minor is over how many cards in the minor. Usually the exact minor suit length is not going to effect the choice of games all that much -- when this matters it will usually be part of a slam decision.