Which suit to support first ?

[Flame]

As dealer You holds

[hv=s=saxha10xdkj10xcqjxx]133|100|[/hv]

1NT-2♦

2♥-3♦

I'll tell you my thoughts you tell me yours...

6♦ would be better then 6♥ so you might want to bid 3♠ showing support.

On the other hand, if partner is intrested in game only 4♥ is your spot and maybe you should bid the "obvious" 3♥.

Soppose you bid 3♥ and see partner going for a slam you can jump to 6♦ and hope for good.

If instead you bid 3♠ showing support for ♦ then if partner bid 3NT you are fine now because 4♥ must show fit and not a cue.

If on 3♠ partner bid 4♣ or 4♦ then 4♥ would probebly be a cue (is it ?) but maybe its just fine because if he cue we like slam the ♦ slam.

So ill go for 3♠, agree ?

[foo]

As dealer You holds

[hv=s=saxha10xdkj10xcqjxx]133|100|[/hv]

1NT-2♦

2♥-3♦

I'll tell you my thoughts you tell me yours...

6♦ would be better then 6♥ so you might want to bid 3♠ showing support.

On the other hand, if partner is intrested in game only 4♥ is your spot and maybe you should bid the "obvious" 3♥.

Soppose you bid 3♥ and see partner going for a slam you can jump to 6♦ and hope for good.

If instead you bid 3♠ showing support for ♦ then if partner bid 3NT you are fine now because 4♥ must show fit and not a cue.

If on 3♠ partner bid 4♣ or 4♦ then 4♥ would probebly be a cue (is it ?) but maybe its just fine because if he cue we like slam the ♦ slam.

So ill go for 3♠, agree ?

Responder's sequence here has the Standard meaning of being a 55 H+D GF hand with interest in slam. My comments are based on this and not valid if you have other meanings for what hand Responder is showing here.

 

I like 1N-2D+;2H-3D;3H best here given that

a= We are in a GF auction, so we have time to show the double fit in H+D.

b= When both 6H and 6D make, 6H scores better.

(you have not mentioned the conditions of contest.)

 

3S is also a good bid, but I prefer to

1= confirm we have a 53 fit in H's. Later I will confirm the double fit.

2= have an explicit agreement about what an immediate cue bid in a Black suit here.

 

When I cooperate by bidding anything other than 3N or 4H, GOP should know that I'm interested in slam as well.

[pbleighton]

Responder's sequence here has the Standard meaning of being a 55 H+D GF hand with interest in slam.

 

Where I play, it's 5-4 or better, with slam interest. I also bid 3H, to conserve space.

 

Peter

[jdonn]

I agree with all the 3♥ bids but none of the reasons leading to them. 3♦ is 5-4 or better game forcing (although a 2542 with no slam interest would not tend to bother showing the diamonds), so unless/until partner confirms slam interest the first priority is to support hearts. Game before slam. If partner makes any positive move over that (anything but 3NT or 4♥) we can show our diamond support next and cooperate as appropriate.

[djehuti]

I like to play 4♦ showing double-fit... it would suit this hand fine since we don't even have a club cue. Even if 4!d wasn't discussed, could it be anything else?

[pbleighton]

I agree with all the 3♥ bids but none of the reasons leading to them. 3D is 5-4 or better game forcing (although a 2542 with no slam interest would not tend to bother showing the diamonds), so unless/until partner confirms slam interest the first priority is to support hearts. Game before slam. If partner makes any positive move over that (anything but 3NT or 4♥) we can show our diamond support next and cooperate as appropriate.

 

Game before slam, but if 3D is truly slam invitational (that's the way I play it, I know others don't), then we're definitely in slam try mode with a double fit.

 

If you play that 3D can be a 1543 9 count (not wrong, but not my style), then I agree with you.

 

Peter

[mike777]

I do not see 3d alerted as showing slam try and not just game forcing.

I bid 3H for now, esp at MP.

[jdonn]

I like to play 4♦ showing double-fit... it would suit this hand fine since we don't even have a club cue. Even if 4!d wasn't discussed, could it be anything else?

Uh lol...a big diamond fit and NOT a heart fit? Why in the world would an undiscussed bid show support for some other suit?

 

As a technical point, I don't want to show diamond support on hands where we are headed to 4♥. It will tell the opponent with diamond length he can lead that suit and try to give his partner a ruff or two.

[the hog]

"Responder's sequence here has the Standard meaning of being a 55 H+D GF hand with interest in slam. My comments are based on this and not valid if you have other meanings for what hand Responder is showing here."

 

If this is the case Foo, how do you show a strong 5-4, or even an ordinary GF hand where 5m may be better than 3NT.

It pays to have a bid here which shows support for both suits. Failing that I bid 3H.

[djehuti]

Uh lol...a big diamond fit and NOT a heart fit? Why in the world would an undiscussed bid show support for some other suit?

 

It's a little hard to construct hands where you dont have a spade or club cue,or, it would be rare ,but ok, i think its possible.

 

From the technical point, ill be loosing some when they do lead a diamond and they do get a ruff, but i think i'll bid my slams a little more accuratly, with 6 RKB and usually knowing where the slam will play best.

[the hog]

"It's a little hard to construct hands where you dont have a spade or club cue,or, it would be rare ,but ok, i think its possible."

 

You don't even necessarily have to have a cue. You could use one or both of the other bids as artificial responses showing support for both of responder's suits. Klinger uses something similar.

[pclayton]

3♥. This is a good minimum, but I don't want to get carried away with it. My club honors may help or they may not. Lets see if pard is slamming 1st. Over 3♠, I bid 3N, over 4♠, 4♠.

 

If I start with a cue of 3♠, I tend to deny heart support. If I were to go back to 4♥ over 4♣ (say), it sounds like I have ♥Ax.

 

I'd be curious how those that play transfer extensions would bid this over 3♣ (♦'s).

[foo]

"Responder's sequence here has the Standard meaning of being a 55 H+D GF hand with interest in slam. My comments are based on this and not valid if you have other meanings for what hand Responder is showing here."

 

If this is the case Foo, how do you show a strong 5-4, or even an ordinary GF hand where 5m may be better than 3NT.

It pays to have a bid here which shows support for both suits. Failing that I bid 3H.

Here's a system that allows everything you ask... ...even for Invitational Responders.

 

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;3M! misfit, min

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;3OM! minor fit, Max

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;3n! misfit, max

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;4m! minor fit, hole in one of Responder's unbid suits

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;4om! Major fit, Max

1N-Xfer;2M-3m;4M! Major fit, min

[Fluffy]

I play that this sequence shows specifically 2542, but playing standard this would be only 5+♥, 4+♦, Game values or more.

[BebopKid]

I'm going to say 3♠ to cue bid my first round controls which I would intend as support of the hearts, I opened 1 NT so my partner is the captain. Partner can choose where to put the contract and how to get there.

[helene_t]

Not sure how likely 6♦ is to be better than 6♥, especially at MP:

- If opps lead a spade and p has the queen, I'd rather play the hand myself so that I can play the queen at trick one and see what happens. If my hand is dummy, declarer may have a tough call deciding on whether to play the ace at trick one. Note that reverse situation in clubs does not exist since there will probably be no option of getting rid of partner's club losers.

- If partner has the king of spades, we have the same losers whether hearts or diamonds is trump.

- If partner has neither ♠K or Q, and we get a spade lead, diamonds and hearts must both play without losers for a timely spade discard on hearts. And it may still fail if diamonds are 4-1.

 

So I bid 3♥. 4♦ to show the double fit is cute, though. Never thought about that.

[whereagles]

In these sequences, priority usually goes to showing a heart fit. Otherwise it's gonna be a mess to convince pard you have one... I know that from experience!!!

[skjaeran]

Deleted - somehow double posted.

[skjaeran]

Here I play that a direct cue (3♠/4♣) accept diamonds and deny heart support. 3♥ show heart support and deny diamond support, whereas a raise to 4♦ show support for both suits.

 

My experience is that this is superior in slam exploring sequences. Showing support for both suits might help opponents defending vs 4♥.

 

Without this agreement I'll show my heart support and bid 3♥.

[Flame]

Thanks everyone.

At the table i have bid 3♥, didnt want to take chances.

3♠ showing support for ♦ could work bad if partner decide to go directly to 5♦,

yet in many other sequences it can turn out ot be better.

[MickyB]

Clear to show ♥ support.

 

Surprised everyone thinks 3♠ would be a cue, that's natural for me.

[Flame]

Not sure how likely 6♦ is to be better than 6♥, especially at MP:

- If opps lead a spade and p has the queen, I'd rather play the hand myself so that I can play the queen at trick one and see what happens. If my hand is dummy, declarer may have a tough call deciding on whether to play the ace at trick one. Note that reverse situation in clubs does not exist since there will probably be no option of getting rid of partner's club losers.

- If partner has the king of spades, we have the same losers whether hearts or diamonds is trump.

- If partner has neither ♠K or Q, and we get a spade lead, diamonds and hearts must both play without losers for a timely spade discard on hearts. And it may still fail if diamonds are 4-1.

 

So I bid 3♥. 4♦ to show the double fit is cute, though. Never thought about that.

 

 

3♠ followed by

if partner has

 

♥KQXXX

♦AQXX

and a control in ♣ we make 6♦ while 6♥ might be on finnese or just go down.

example:

 

[hv=s=sxxhkqjxxdaqxxckx]133|100|[/hv]

6♥ goes down on ♠ lead while 6♦ is cold assuming suits breaks.

[kenrexford]

This is another somewhat difficult question to answer without truly knowing the style. However, some have proposed answers that bypass all of that with accurate summarizations that 3♥ is best for space conservation.

 

That being said, it would be useful to have some understanding as to the partnership style. I'm assuming that, when Responder makes an unbalanced GF like has apparently just happened, 3♥ agreeing a heart fit makes 3NT not a viable contract but a cue. If so, a 3♥ call from Opener sets up what will undoubtedly be a nice auction. Responder can cue 3♠, presumably, and then you can cue 3NT to give room for a 4♣ cue. If that does not occur, you sign off at 4♥. If partner cannot cue 3♠, he will undoubtedly cue 4♣, and you can last train him with 4♦, planning to leap to 6♦ if partner bids 4NT (6♦ clearly not being void-indicating, I would expect).

 

Any other course, initially, is trouble. Sure, you could bid 3♠, presumably a cue in support of diamonds (general -- slammish but not bypassing 3NT). If partner "accepts" and shows a non-bare-slam-try and a club control (4♣), then you can probably bid 4♠, which I'll assume to be RKCB for diamonds. If partner bids 4♦, however, will partner read 4♥ as sign-off? If so, then you lose definition in your minor-suit cuebidding sequences. If partner bids 3NT, you can pass and might be right, but I doubt it. Otherwise, 4♦ might be available, or even 4♥. However, these options are either going to be ambiguous (if not thorougly discussed) or, if defined by the partnership as cues, bars to 4♥ as a contract (bad, but possibly a necessary evil), or, if 4♥ is defined as a signoff, a bad limitation on cuebidding definition.

 

In other words, make life simple when you can. Major fits and cuebidding thereafter have fairly easy and trustable rules. Minor fits and cuebidding thereafter do not. Establish the major when possible.

[mike777]

I'm going to say 3♠ to cue bid my first round controls which I would intend as support of the hearts, I opened 1 NT so my partner is the captain. Partner can choose where to put the contract and how to get there.

3s here is clearly clearly a cuebid in support of Diamonds, NOT hearts.

[junyi_zhu]

As dealer You holds

[hv=s=saxha10xdkj10xcqjxx]133|100|[/hv]

1NT-2♦

2♥-3♦

I'll tell you my thoughts you tell me yours...

6♦ would be better then 6♥ so you might want to bid 3♠ showing support.

On the other hand, if partner is intrested in game only 4♥ is your spot and maybe you should bid the "obvious" 3♥.

Soppose you bid 3♥ and see partner going for a slam you can jump to 6♦ and hope for good.

If instead you bid 3♠ showing support for ♦ then if partner bid 3NT you are fine now because 4♥ must show fit and not a cue.

If on 3♠ partner bid 4♣ or 4♦ then 4♥ would probebly be a cue (is it ?) but maybe its just fine because if he cue we like slam the ♦ slam.

So ill go for 3♠, agree ?

I play 4D to show both fit and no C control. With only D fit, I never bypass 3nt.