defending multi

[han]

Here is another hand that I got from a friend:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxxhaxxdajxxxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(2D*)-p-(2H*)-3C

(p)-3D-(p)-4C

(p)-??[/hv]

 

2D was multi, 2H was p/c.

 

Do you agree with the initial pass? (I said I woulld bid 3D)

 

What is your call now?

[whereagles]

I would also have bid 3♦ and I pass now.

[Fluffy]

I'd say you are short an ace for 3♦

 

Now I would bid 4♦

[pclayton]

I think I like the initial overcall too. I'd rather come in at the 3 level than the 4 level when LHO bounces, which seems very possible given my short majors.

 

I suppose I pass 4♣, but would give serious consideration to 4♦ if 4♣ gets whacked.

[inquiry]

Here is another hand that I got from a friend:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxxhaxxdajxxxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(2D*)-p-(2H*)-3C

(p)-3D-(p)-4C

(p)-??[/hv]

 

2D was multi, 2H was p/c.

 

Do you agree with the initial pass? (I said I woulld bid 3D)

 

What is your call now?

Your friend made life difficult for himself...

 

If dbl showed diamonds he could of doubled (for me it shows either hearts or spades, but not both!!!). Since DBL shows one major or the other (just like their 2D did), then 2H shows the balanced hand (and partner can pass with hearts or correct to 2S with spades and weak hands). This allows 2S and 2N to be transfers showing clubs and diamonds, and an immediate 3C and 3D to be "preemptive" (less than opening hand).

 

So over 2D I could have choosen between 3D and 2NT. This hand just isn't up to 2NT standards (openng hand, diamnods), so I probably would have bid 3♦ (weak hand and diamonds) and would be out of the auction, with decisions left to partner.

[Echognome]

Obviously it depends on your methods. For example, in some partnerships I play that double shows either a weakish NT (13-15) or a strong hand. In other partnerships I play that double shows a multi hand itself, but often with more options than the original multi.

 

Either way, I would overcall 3♦ initially. The 7th diamond and two bullets make up for the slight lack of fillers. I would feel good about overcalling initially because then I wouldn't feel as if I needed to do anything else on the hand except for cooperate with partner. Now, I've left myself in a bit of a hole. As it is, I will pass 4♣.

[whereagles]

I'd say you are short an ace for 3♦

 

Now I would bid 4♦

gonzalo, if you always have your "bids" at poker, you're never going to win :o

[skjaeran]

I play 3♦ as a "weak" overcall. Then it would be clear to overcall on this hand. Without this agreement, the hand is too weak and has to pass. LHO rates to have a ♠ suit and opener ♥'s. Partner have long ♣'s and probably some length in both majors, and at most a singleton ♦. I'll pass 4♣. Partner won't make this, but he'll not fail by more than two tricks, undoubled. I'd be afraid to be doubled in 4♦.

[nige1]

Here is another hand that I got from a friend:

 

LA MP: ♠ xx ♥ Axx ♦ AJxxxxx ♣ x

(2♦) _P (2♥) 3♣

(_P ) 3♦ (_P) 4♣

(_P) ??

 

2♦ was multi, 2♥ was p/c.

 

Do you agree with the initial pass? (I said I woulld bid 3♦)

 

What is your call now?

:)

IMO

[A] P=10 3♦=7

I belong to the school that advocates sound actions over pre-empts -- and the multi is almost always a weak pre-empt.

:huh:

4♦=10 P=1

:huh:

[Guest Jlall]

I would never overcall 3D to a weak 2 with this. You just dont have enough and will get too high too often. For every magic 21 point game there are 5 no play games. Especially after multi I would not overcall, if I'm lucky I will get to back in later showing a hand much like this. I think the initial pass was a very good disciplined bid. We would overcall 3D with another ace and queen and the range is simply becoming too wide and putting too much pressure on partner otherwise.

 

Anyways, I would give up over 4C.

[Edmunte1]

If you're not playing Granovetter or something like that, i think it's a pass hand. Partner will expect a much better hand (as hcp) for a direct overcall. Now it's a close call between pass and 4♦ and i'll chose 4♦

[jdonn]

Definitely would not overcall to begin with. The logic that it avoids a guess later is completely flawed, since you may or may not have a guess later but overcalling now is definitely a random guess.

[Echognome]

Hmm. I always played a 3m overcall as showing roughly 10-12 and a 6 card suit over a multi. It just seemed that hand-type was common and also had the effect of making it very difficult for the opponents if it was their hand. It is nearly impossible for them to double you without knowing what their partner's major is. I guess if responder were something like 1=2=5=5 you'd get hit, but otherwise they might risk a major suit fit.

[mike777]

Here is another hand that I got from a friend:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxxhaxxdajxxxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(2D*)-p-(2H*)-3C

(p)-3D-(p)-4C

(p)-??[/hv]

 

2D was multi, 2H was p/c.

 

Do you agree with the initial pass? (I said I woulld bid 3D)

 

What is your call now?

Pass. No problem yet.

[cherdano]

Hmm. I always played a 3m overcall as showing roughly 10-12 and a 6 card suit over a multi. It just seemed that hand-type was common and also had the effect of making it very difficult for the opponents if it was their hand. It is nearly impossible for them to double you without knowing what their partner's major is. I guess if responder were something like 1=2=5=5 you'd get hit, but otherwise they might risk a major suit fit.

So how do you show a minor suit with 13-17 hcp? Having to double with this is really really ugly.

 

I am not sure what I would do over a weak two but over Multi I hope I can bid 3♦ later.

[the hog]

I certainly agree with the initial passers unless you have the nice agreement, like Ben does, that 3D shows a weak hand.

Pass 4C and hope there is no x.

[mike777]

Here is another hand that I got from a friend:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxxhaxxdajxxxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(2D*)-p-(2H*)-3C

(p)-3D-(p)-4C

(p)-??[/hv]

 

2D was multi, 2H was p/c.

 

Do you agree with the initial pass? (I said I woulld bid 3D)

 

What is your call now?

Han's bidding seems just fine, why do I want to preempt a preempt in front of an unpassed partner?

[helene_t]

I'd probably pass initially but I don't feel strongly about it. 3♦ is OK as well. Over pd's 3♣, 3♦ is clear-cut.

 

Pd could have shown a major suit guard instead of bidding 4♣, right? Sounds as if he has solid clubs and nothing else. I'd pass. 4♣-1 should be ok since opps can probably make 3♠.

[mike777]

ok I know nothing about multi..but this bidding seems just fine....in fact more than fine....what is the issue here?

 

Seems novice ...novice bidding so far.

[whereagles]

I think you should act on the "weak" diamond hand. I remember once pard had something like

 

x

xx

Axx

KQJxxxx

 

and he passed my LHOs multi. It went

 

(2♦) pass (2♥) pass

(2♠) 3♣ (pass) ..?

 

and now I had something like

 

Axx

Jxx

Qxxx

Axx

 

I did bid the cold 3NT (opps led a spade), but I only did it because we were losing and I needed a swing..

[jdonn]

I think you should act on the "weak" diamond hand. I remember once pard had something like

 

x

xx

Axx

KQJxxxx

 

and he passed my LHOs multi. It went

 

(2♦) pass (2♥) pass

(2♠) 3♣ (pass) ..?

 

and now I had something like

 

Axx

Jxx

Qxxx

Axx

 

I did bid the cold 3NT (opps led a spade), but I only did it because we were losing and I needed a swing..

I don't get it. If he had bid immediately and you play it shows some sort of weakish overcall, say like what partner holds, then aren't you in the exact same position just a round earlier? In fact you are in a much worse position since you don't know opener's suit, which may be hearts, and you have no heart stopper.

 

Anyway that's a better hand than the one we have been discussing. Short of bad breaks, partner will make 3NT if he bids it after an overcall so long as he holds either the club ace or two stoppers in whatever they lead. On the original example if partner had a stiff diamond he was going to have big problems.

[whereagles]

I don't get it. If he had bid immediately and you play it shows some sort of weakish overcall, say like what partner holds, then aren't you in the exact same position just a round earlier?

no, no, that's not what I meant. I'm not saying you should play (2♦)-3m as some sort of weak overcall. The 3m bid should be a constructive overcall. What I'm saying is that you should make that overcall on hands that have adequate playing strength and defense, regardless of their hcp strength. Both the hand I've shown above and the original one have, in my opinion, that playing strength and should thus bid 3m.

 

On the hand I've shown, a direct 3♣ would make bidding 3NT a piece of cake. In this thread's hand, I don't know what a direct 3♦ would have led to, but at least it would have saved us the current mess ;)