Lead vs 3NT

[whereagles]

Hi all. Imps, expert table, none vuln, you hold:

 

♠ JTxx

♥ AJ9x

♦ Axx

♣ Jx

 

LHO RHO

1♣ . 1♥

3♣* 3NT

 

3♣ = 13-16 with good club suit.

 

Your lead?

[SoTired]

In real life, I would lead a small spade, but since this is presented on a message board:

 

HEART

[jillybean]

♠J

[Fluffy]

low spade

[BillHiggin]

I do lead a small heart (and do so in similar circumstances regularily - it does not always work, but my success rate has been good)

 

The 1♥ bid did not promise a concentration of values (nor did the 3♣ bid deny ♥ values - we takes our chances).

But a heart lead is more likely to work than any other. In this case, it is still a bit of a long shot.

[mike777]

Hi all. Imps, expert table, none vuln, you hold:

 

♠ JTxx

♥ AJ9x

♦ Axx

♣ Jx

 

LHO RHO

1♣ . 1♥

3♣* 3NT

 

3♣ = 13-16 with good club suit.

 

Your lead?

Will lead from my longest and strongest suit, this may put us ahead of the other expert tables. ;)

[whereagles]

In real life, I would lead a small spade, but since this is presented on a message board:

 

HEART

Well, I'm sorry for double-crossing you then ;) Hands were:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sxxhqxdkxcakxxxxx&w=sjtxxhaj9xdaxxcjx&e=saqxhxxdqxxxxxcxx&s=skxxxhkt8xdjxcqtx]399|300|Scoring: IMP

North South

1♣ . 1♥

3♣ . 3NT[/hv]

I was West and led a heart. Declarer took in hand and played another heart up. I took and switched to a spade for the A and another. Opps took 10 tricks now.

 

Oh well, at least I could nag pard for not having overcalled 1♦ :)

 

Thx all

[SoTired]

On another thread, I overcall 1D with the same rules I overcall other 1-level bids, any 5-card suit and any 8+ hcp. Everybody chimed in that the 1D overcall had little obstruction value and so should be based on a superior suit or greater power.

 

HOGWASH. And this hand is one of the reasons

[Finch]

No it isn't.

The normal spade lead beats the contract.

[jtfanclub]

On another thread, I overcall 1D with the same rules I overcall other 1-level bids, any 5-card suit and any 8+ hcp. Everybody chimed in that the 1D overcall had little obstruction value and so should be based on a superior suit or greater power.

 

HOGWASH. And this hand is one of the reasons

Unless you're using 2♦ for something special (like both majors), why wouldn't you bid 2♦ instead of 1? It's 6+ diamond, 8- hcp, just as promised, and it does have serious pre-emptive value.

 

2♦ seems to fit the hand better than1♦. Of course, so does pass....

[SoTired]

On another thread, I overcall 1D with the same rules I overcall other 1-level bids, any 5-card suit and any 8+ hcp. Everybody chimed in that the 1D overcall had little obstruction value and so should be based on a superior suit or greater power.

 

HOGWASH. And this hand is one of the reasons

Unless you're using 2♦ for something special (like both majors), why wouldn't you bid 2♦ instead of 1? It's 6+ diamond, 8- hcp, just as promised, and it does have serious pre-emptive value.

 

2♦ seems to fit the hand better than1♦. Of course, so does pass....

I agree with you that 2D is a better bid than 1D. But pass is the worst bid.

[skjaeran]

I strongly disagree with overcalling ♦'s at any level with the actual east hand. 2♦ gives a completely wrong description of the hand, and 1♦ is nonsense. The hand is too weak and you've got no suit.

 

For the lead, to me it's close between a low ♠ and a low ♦. (My partner would be very disappointed if I didn't lead a ♦.) As it happens, both beat the contract.

[mike777]

In real life, I would lead a small spade, but since this is presented on a message board:

 

HEART

Well, I'm sorry for double-crossing you then :P Hands were:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sxxhqxdkxcakxxxxx&w=sjtxxhaj9xdaxxcjx&e=saqxhxxdqxxxxxcxx&s=skxxxhkt8xdjxcqtx]399|300|Scoring: IMP

North South

1♣ . 1♥

3♣ . 3NT[/hv]

I was West and led a heart. Declarer took in hand and played another heart up. I took and switched to a spade for the A and another. Opps took 10 tricks now.

 

Oh well, at least I could nag pard for not having overcalled 1♦ :)

 

Thx all

South was dealer and passed.

 

My regular late night partner would kill me for not opening a clear cut 1D with the West hand. :) Why blame East :)

[whereagles]

Huh.. that was a mistake. North opened :P

[mike777]

Huh.. that was a mistake. North opened :P

Ok put me down for 2d then with the east hand, but I certainly understand pass instead. I just prefer in and out fast esp nv.

[Codo]

Yes so many "wonderful" things can happen if you bid 1 or 2 diamonds:

 

1. They won´t play 3 NT -1 but 3 or 4 Club instead

2. Pd may raise diamonds to 4 Diamond X -2

3. Pd may misdefend because he simply does not believe, that you have 75 % of your HCPS in spade.

 

Yes I think bidding diamonds with such a great suit looks like winning bridge to me.

[jdonn]

Yes so many "wonderful" things can happen if you bid 1 or 2 diamonds:

 

1. They won´t play 3 NT -1 but 3 or 4 Club instead

2. Pd may raise diamonds to 4 Diamond X -2

3. Pd may misdefend because he simply does not believe, that you have 75 % of your HCPS in spade.

 

Yes I think bidding diamonds with such a great suit looks like winning bridge to me.

Well

 

1. They made 3NT.

2. He would not have, and anyway why is that more of a danger than a similar overcall with a major?

3. He DID misdefend when he wouldn't have had diamonds been overcalled.

 

All I'm saying is bidding on these hands works much better in practice than it "should". Not every time, but I am convinced it does more than not. Besides why can't your side just have half the deck but partner is too balanced to get into the auction? I think people take this "I can't overcall 1♦ without some great hand" thing way too far. Opponents still do much better in uncontested auctions than even auctions where they are preempted just a little, which partner can only do if you get in there. Like 1♣ 1♦ X 2♦ they lost the 2♣ rebid, and might be making 3♣ with neither player able to bid it.

[Guest Jlall]

1D>>>p>>2D

[Codo]

Well

 

1. They made 3NT.

2. He would not have, and anyway why is that more of a danger than a similar overcall with a major?

3. He DID misdefend when he wouldn't have had diamonds been overcalled.

 

All I'm saying is bidding on these hands works much better in practice than it "should". Not every time, but I am convinced it does more than not. Besides why can't your side just have half the deck but partner is too balanced to get into the auction? I think people take this "I can't overcall 1♦ without some great hand" thing way too far. Opponents still do much better in uncontested auctions than even auctions where they are preempted just a little, which partner can only do if you get in there. Like 1♣ 1♦ X 2♦ they lost the 2♣ rebid, and might be making 3♣ with neither player able to bid it.

Okay, whenever my pd tends to lead their suits instead of the unbid suits, I will bid a suit for him. I have no clear preference for which suit, but I will think about a 1 spade bid after their 1 Club opening with the given hand next time:

 

1. They won´t make 3 NT

2. Pd won´t raise me anyway but if he will, I must accept this risk

(3 Spade-1 isn´t bad either)

3.He won´t misdefend because I had bid a suit which he can lead.

 

 

Okay with a more serious note: We had the pros and cons for weak 1 Diamond bids before. So I simply dislike this "obvious" 1 D/ 2 D bid thing.

Of course there are hands where a quick in approach will work well. But there are other hands where you simply helped declarer or find pd defending with N Diamond when he shouldn´t.

 

And against comeptent opps, you simply give them more bids to descbie their hand, not less.

 

Each on his own to decide how aggressive his bidding should be and how weak his suit can be.

[whereagles]

Of course there are hands where a quick in approach will work well. But there are other hands where you simply helped declarer or find pd defending with N Diamond when he shouldn´t.

I find this argument of "weak bids giving the show away" to be quite overrated. Before opps can take advantage of your bid, they have to bid to the right contract and it's not obvious they will manage to do that. Especially when your bids obstruct them (even 1♦ can be obstructive if pard can scrap up a raise).

[redbird97]

Low Heart. Fourth from longest and strongest. It seems to work out more often that it doesn't.