A couple of hands...

[jahol]

1) Sitting south, non-vulnerable against vulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

A3---Q742---J83---6543

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

...................................................pass

2C(1)--------pass-------2D(2)--------pass

3D(3)--------pass--------3H----------dbl

3S------------pass-------3NT----------pass

5S------------pass-------???

 

(1)...strong

(2)...waiting

(3)...natural, GF

 

What does your partner have?

 

 

 

2) Sitting north, vulnerable against non-vulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

J4---943---A8---KJ8754

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

..................................1H---------- pass

1NT(1)-------2D---------3C-----------5D

????

 

(1)...invitational hand, if H fit is shown later

 

What do you bid?

 

 

3) Sitting south, vulnerable against nonvulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

84---KQ763---J86---AQ3

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1C-----------pass---------1H----------2D

pass(1)------3D----------????

 

(1)...less than 3 hearts

 

What do you bid?

 

 

4) Sitting north, vulnerable against non-vulnerable, you have this motivating hand

 

Q982---Q8632---void---AK84

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1H-----------pass--------2D(1)------ pass

2S(2)--------pass--------3D----------pass

3NT----------pass--------4D----------pass

???

 

(1)...GF

(2)...just spades, not promising any extra points

 

What do you bid?

 

Does it make any difference, if the bidding is

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1H-----------pass--------2D(1)------ pass

2S(2)--------pass--------4D?

 

What is the difference? What does your partner hold in the first and second case?

 

 

Thank you in advance for any advice...

[Finch]

1.

Partner has lots of diamonds, nearly as many spades, and a huge hand.

 

I should be embarrassed by my 3NT bid last round holding a very dodgy heart stop (and 3H was doubled, I assume for penalties), nothing in clubs and 3-card diamond support. 4D would seem obvious over 3S.

 

I am tempted to bid 7D to catch up, but if I could think of showing a good 6D bid some way I would do.

 

2.

I would have raised 1H to 2H, rather than call this an invite at the 3-level.

Now I have to double 5D and hope for the best.

 

3.

Partner sounds as if he is 4225. I would double 3D for take-out, and bid 4C over 3S, which he can pass if he wants, or bid 5C if he is 4216, or possibly bid 4H if he has a suitable hand with Ax in hearts. The 5-2 heart fit might play well (KQxx Ax x KJxxxx, say). I'm being a bit optimistic - there may be no game anywhere on the hand, but it's imps.

 

4. On the first auction I bid 4NT as long as that shows a bad and unstuiable hand.

On the second auction diamonds have been set as trumps and partner is demanding I cue bid, so I bid 5C (unhappily).

[mgoetze]

1. It depends what my alternatives to 2♦ were. If I had a "double negative" 2♥ available, I'll bid 6♦, otherwise 7♦.

 

2. I don't think our hands fit well for slam (no heart honours), and I have the ♦A - double for penalties.

 

3. Unless partner is fond of opening light, I'll try 3NT.

 

4a. 5♦, a conventional bid meaning "shut up, please".

 

4b. Agree with Frances.

[Fluffy]

North--------East--------South-------West

...................................................pass

2C(1)--------pass-------2D(2)--------pass

3D(3)--------pass--------3H----------dbl

3S------------pass-------3NT----------pass

5S------------pass-------???

 

 

What does your partner have?

My partner has..... to find a new partner after this deal :D

 

Now seriously I hope he has KQxx - AKxxxxxxx -

 

maybe something similar. 7 should be cold.

 

North--------East--------South-------West

..................................1H---------- pass

1NT(1)-------2D---------3C-----------5D

????

 

What do you bid? 

 

pass

 

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1C-----------pass---------1H----------2D

pass(1)------3D----------????

 

 

What do you bid?

 

double

 

 

 

4) Sitting north, vulnerable against non-vulnerable, you have this motivating hand

 

(2)...just spades, not promising any extra points

 

What do you bid?

 

Sitting north and playing (2) is an inconsistency, wouldn't sit there :lol:

 

Ok, first 5♦ sing off, second 5♣ cuebid (stonger)

[whereagles]

1. 6♦. I'm playing pard for a 2-loser 65 hand, of which I cover one. If he has ♥xx... well, sh*t happens :lol:

 

2. 5♥. Why didn't I bid 2♥ before?

 

3. dbl and bid 4♣ over pard's eventual 3♠. I'm actually hoping pard passes this dbl :D gawd I hate support doubles...

 

4. 4NT, to play. And I don't know what's the difference between the 2 sequences.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 6-5, I bid 6D

#2 double, I have a def. trick

and partner opened

I would have liked to show club

support, but no idea if 6C makes

#3 Pass, they got me, and partner

is still there, if I double, I will hear

spades

#4 5D, what else?

If it goes down, and partner is angry,

he has my sympathy

Most likely the 2nd seq. sets trumps,

the first may still imply interest in a

different strain, but given your hand,

I dont care

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

1) Sitting south, non-vulnerable against vulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

A3---Q742---J83---6543

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

...................................................pass

2C(1)--------pass-------2D(2)--------pass

3D(3)--------pass--------3H----------dbl

3S------------pass-------3NT----------pass

5S------------pass-------???

 

2) Sitting north, vulnerable against non-vulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

J4---943---A8---KJ8754

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

..................................1H---------- pass

1NT(1)-------2D---------3C-----------5D

????

 

3) Sitting south, vulnerable against nonvulnerable, IMPs, you have this not very motivating hand

 

84---KQ763---J86---AQ3

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1C-----------pass---------1H----------2D

pass(1)------3D----------????

 

4) Sitting north, vulnerable against non-vulnerable, you have this motivating hand

 

Q982---Q8632---void---AK84

 

and the bidding up to now was:

 

North--------East--------South-------West

1H-----------pass--------2D(1)------ pass

2S(2)--------pass--------3D----------pass

3NT----------pass--------4D----------pass

???

 

(1)...GF

(2)...just spades, not promising any extra points

1) I have to say this every time, 3♥ is silly! When we have support raise partner, you failed to do so twice. 4♦ is the only correct bid over 3♦. At this point 7♦ is clearly correct if partner can be at all trusted.

 

Why do people have this aversion to raising partner just because the suit is a minor?

 

2) 5♥, if they double I may decide to run to clubs, but I'm sure as heck not defending 5♦.

 

3) Double, wtp? It just shows points.

 

4) 5♦ unless you want to lose a partner, or have agree this to be NF.

[hatchett]

1. I agree with those that say we should have raised♦s earlier. Having got to this stage we have an enormous hand; I would bid 7♦

 

2. 5♥

 

3. Double

 

4. The second sequence should set ♦ and demand cue-bidding

On the first sequence I would bid 5♦ and in the second sequence I would bid 5♣.

[Codo]

1. As anybody I spoiled the bidding so far and now have to guess. I guess 6 Diamond, not 7, but this is close.

 

2. 5 Heart, we have a huge double fit, I will never ever defend 5 Diamond with this hand. But again my bidding so far had created the problems.

 

3. X business

 

4. 4 Heart (I really dislike diamonds) and 5 Club ( forced)

 

I may agree on some new bidding agreements after these disasters:

1. Support with support

2. Support even more often with support.

3. a reverse is stronger then a weak opening.

 

Yes this sounds like real hot and new stuff, but try it, it works.

[inquiry]

1. Wish we were playing Misiry, I would know rather than have to guess what to do. But partner is forcing to slam opposite pressumed wasted values in hearts -- A gun was held to my head and forced me to bid 3NT. And I have an unexpected trick (spade ACE). If Seven doesn't make, I will be very unhappy with the leap to 5♠. I suspect partner holds KQJxx void AKQTxx A or similiar.

 

2. Raise with support is an idea I very much like. I would have raised hearts on the first round like everyone else. Now I have blind decision, double or finally show my support. If I had raised initially, I could pass having shown my values and support, or I could double. I have to wonder where the spades are. Sounds like they have double fit as do we. So I will abstain, as itis difficult for me to get partner's input as I have kept him the dark and now I have to make a utilateral decision. If the director comes to the table and says I must bid, I will doube.

 

3. Dbl, correct 3S to 4C, 4S to 5C, pass 3H, pass 4C, pass 3NT, pass 4H.

 

4a. 4NT - after I tried to signoff in 3NT, this is not blackwood, nor forward going. Partner will probably place the contract with his next bid. He has been warned.

 

4b. 5C - 4D in a game forcing auction sets trumps and is strong slam try. 5C tells partner that I lack ACE or KING in either major, and that I have ACE or KING of clubs. He can probably reconstruct my AK (or AQ) of clubs for this bid, with at most Queen in both majors and the fact that his diamonds probably have all the high honors. To have an opening bid then, requires two top clubs.

[Apollo81]

I'm going to disagree with many of the posts so far.

 

A3---Q742---J83---6543

 

3♥ was a bad bid (prefer 4♦). I'm not 100% sure I should bid 7♦. I would probably bid 6♣ and pass if partner bid 6♦.

 

 

J4---943---A8---KJ8754

 

1NT was a bad bid (prefer 2♥). I would bid 6♣. IMO the chance that this is down when 5♥ makes is less than the chance that we will play in 5♥ (making or otherwise) when 6♣ is cold were I to bid 5♥. I strongly prefer 5♥ to double.

 

 

84---KQ763---J86---AQ3

 

At MPs I would certainly double, but I do not like doubling partscores at IMPs unless we have them down 2 for nearly sure. I would bid 4♣ on this hand. I suspect partner is 3226.

 

 

Q982---Q8632---void---AK84

 

First auction: 4NT if it is natural and NF. 5♦ otherwise.

Second auction: I thought most people played this as RKC in diamonds. If this isn't what it means, then I would bid 5♦. I refuse to cuebid when my hand strength is unknown and I have the worst possible hand for partner.

[jdonn]

I'm going to disagree with many of the posts so far.

 

A3---Q742---J83---6543

 

3♥ was a bad bid (prefer 4♦). I'm not 100% sure I should bid 7♦. I would probably bid 6♣ and pass if partner bid 6♦.

 

 

J4---943---A8---KJ8754

 

1NT was a bad bid (prefer 2♥). I would bid 6♣. IMO the chance that this is down when 5♥ makes is less than the chance that we will play in 5♥ (making or otherwise) when 6♣ is cold were I to bid 5♥. I strongly prefer 5♥ to double.

 

 

84---KQ763---J86---AQ3

 

At MPs I would certainly double, but I do not like doubling partscores at IMPs unless we have them down 2 for nearly sure. I would bid 4♣ on this hand. I suspect partner is 3226.

 

 

Q982---Q8632---void---AK84

 

First auction: 4NT if it is natural and NF. 5♦ otherwise.

Second auction: I thought most people played this as RKC in diamonds. If this isn't what it means, then I would bid 5♦. I refuse to cuebid when my hand strength is unknown and I have the worst possible hand for partner.

1) I don't understand this at all. How can someone not think a working ace and unshown support opposite a slam force is worth a grand. And Ben....you know exactly what to do, you aren't guessing! Partner shows a strong hand with spades and diamonds and only one loser, and you know what that loser is, and you cover it, and even if he was taking a chance in diamonds you have that covered. What am I missing?

 

3) Since when is this a penalty double? If there were a book about what a double shows in this position, this hand would be on the cover. It shows the strength to be bidding and no clear direction. Frankly if partner did pass I'd expect down 3, maybe 2 on a bad day. It does not show a stack.

 

Whereagles, support doubles helped us here they didn't hurt us. They allow partner to bid 3♥ on a doubleton honor over my double if he is stuck. Why complain about a convention that just made the auction a lot easier :)

 

4) Unless 4♦ is agreed as something else, like RKC, doesn't it say "please cuebid with your unknown strength even if you have the worst possible hand"? Partner will be annoyed when he holds A A AKQJxxxxx xx since he will think you have the real worst possible hand, KQJxx KQJxx x Qx.

[Finch]

I didn't notice partner's 3C bid on the second hand. Ignore my double.

[Apollo81]

1) I don't understand this at all. How can someone not think a working ace and unshown support opposite a slam force is worth a grand. And Ben....you know exactly what to do, you aren't guessing! Partner shows a strong hand with spades and diamonds and only one loser, and you know what that loser is, and you cover it, and even if he was taking a chance in diamonds you have that covered. What am I missing?

 

3) Since when is this a penalty double? If there were a book about what a double shows in this position, this hand would be on the cover. It shows the strength to be bidding and no clear direction. Frankly if partner did pass I'd expect down 3, maybe 2 on a bad day. It does not show a stack.

 

Whereagles, support doubles helped us here they d3.  dn't hurt us. They allow partner to bid 3♥ on a doubleton honor over my double if he is stuck. Why complain about a convention that just made the auction a lot easier :rolleyes:

 

4) Unless 4♦ is agreed as something else, like RKC, doesn't it say "please cuebid with your unknown strength even if you have the worst possible hand"? Partner will be annoyed when he holds A A AKQJxxxxx xx since he will think you have the real worst possible hand, KQJxx KQJxx x Qx.

3. Kxx Ax xx KJxxxx. Clubs are 3-1 and hearts are 4-2. How many tricks are you taking on defense? I know a reasonable number of people share my view about IMP partscore doubles. Note that partner can have the sQ too and they might still make it on normal breaks. Partner can have some other worse-for-defense shapes too where he might not bid 3♣ over 2♦ for various reasons, or things might break worse than normal. I even think folding this hand is not that far out in left field.

 

I suppose the theme for the other two is that your assumptions about what bids might mean in these auctions seem a little different than mine. KQJ10x -- AKQxxx Ax (KQ) looks like a 5♠ bid to me, and 6♣ looks like it shows a trick. On the diamond hand I may technically be in the wrong about the requiredness of a 5♣ cue, but IMO the number of hands like you suggest (partner needs a second round club control and can't figure out whether I have one even though I opened) is smaller than the number of hands where my hand just doesn't provide enough for slam or the "solid" diamonds break badly.

[jdonn]

I won't harp on the others any more (except to say I think your example of a 5♠ bid for partner is ridiculous - we bid partner's void and never showed support, and he thinks 4♠ doesn't show his hand after opening 2♣?), but when you double 3♦, which is not a penalty double, why would partner pass on a minimum with xx of diamonds and a six card suit? I would bid 3♥, taking advantage of apparently having already denied three, but 4♣ is acceptable. Pass isn't. Everything you are saying makes it sound like you think double is for penalties, which it's not. It shows a hand just like this one.

[Finch]

KQJ10x -- AKQxxx Ax (KQ) looks like a 5♠ bid to me,

What on earth do you think a 4S bid looks like, if that's a 5S bid?

[Apollo81]

(except to say I think your example of a 5♠ bid for partner is ridiculous - we bid partner's void and never showed support, and he thinks 4♠ doesn't show his hand after opening 2♣?)

ok ok i guess so

[Fluffy]

4. 4NT, to play. And I don't know what's the difference between the 2 sequences.

It is the quality of the suit

[whereagles]

Whereagles, support doubles helped us here they didn't hurt us. They allow partner to bid 3♥ on a doubleton honor over my double if he is stuck. Why complain about a convention that just made the auction a lot easier :)

by all means, if supp dbls helped you, keep using them. I'm just allergic to them... lol. Mostly because dbl is such a nice and flexible bid that it's a shame to squander it to show any 3 card support.

 

I prefer the Robson/Segal scheme, where you just support with a 3 card suit if the hand is distributional. That keeps dbl for hands where you want to bid and are really stuck.

[cherdano]

4) Unless 4♦ is agreed as something else, like RKC, doesn't it say "please cuebid with your unknown strength even if you have the worst possible hand"? Partner will be annoyed when he holds A A AKQJxxxxx xx since he will think you have the real worst possible hand, KQJxx KQJxx x Qx.

I would think that this hand would jump 4♦ in the second round, which would show solid trumps and force partner to cuebid. The slower sequence shows partner needs more, either a little help in diamonds, or some useful strength.

 

I would still cue 5♣, since it shows a lot about my hand.

[mikegill]

In reference to #3

 

I tend to think double shows a better hand than this. My personal interpretation of this double is "I can't possibly pass, because this is OUR HAND but I don't know what to bid." I don't think this hand is that good - just because i have 12 HCP (11 really since Jxx dubious at best) and partner opens doesn't make it our hand for sure. I wouldn't even be surprised if 3d were the highest making contract for either side. I really have no idea whether or not this is a standard view of what this X means at IMPs. I would expect partner to pass with nothing really else to say and to pull if he has extra shape/offense, and, in particular, 1 or fewer diamonds.

 

What shapes are even possible for this double? Would I double with a 4531 GF, or would I just bid 3S, since that bid is available, and because I'm worried about missing 4S? It seems like it would frequently be right to X them if partner doesn't have 4 spades. If so, then partner pulling to 4C just because he has 6 seems wrong, but him passing with 4S is then also somewhat dangerous. What if I had that shape and Qxx or Kxx diamonds. Would I bid any differently? What about Ax KQJx Jxx Kxxx. Do you just bid 5c, or do you X - certainly you can't bid only 4c. If you bid 5c, you could find partner with KJxx xx Qx AQJxx and you turned +300 or +500 into -50. So maybe you should be doubling - if so then certainly partner must pull with any hand containing 6 clubs. A 3433 14-count would X here with no diamond stopper (or maybe even with a diamond stopper), and you have no reason to believe that you're making 5c or 3N then.

 

I guess my point is this - there are a lot of shapes that want to make this X. Most GF balancedish hands with no stopper in diamonds need to make it because they have no other possible bid. If partner is going to require no extra shape (we know he's at least 5-4, or has 6 clubs, but he doesn't know we know that, so he might think 5-4 is extra shape), something better than xx in diamonds, and not a minimum so that he's not scared that 3dX is making, then he's basically never going to pass. This seems bad to me - if we don't have extra shape (like if we have two top diamond losers) then 5m will usually be down and we just need to take our positive score from 3dX, and punish them for having the unspeakable gall to bid in OUR auction. That's why I think a stronger hand is needed - I think this double says "partner, if you have some normal hand, my hand is strong enough that they're NOT making." I expect partner to pass and take the + a reasonable % of the time, since we're really not sure where we're going. He should definitely pull with a small stiff diamond, and frequently with a stiff honor (they might have a 10-card fit then). I think he should usually sit with xx diamonds or better, unless he has a very offensively-oriented hand. For example, I think KQx xx xx KQJTxx should definitely pull, but I don't think this is a "normal hand" by any means. I think ATx Kx xx ATxxxx should definitely sit, even though it has 6 clubs, and ATx Ax xx KTxxxx should probably sit, but it's closer.

 

Now, at matchpoints, I think this is a clear X. We can't afford setting them two undoubled when we were making 110 or 130, and it's unlikely partner can do anything over 3d. But we can afford the occasional -470, whereas at IMPs that's really really bad.

 

My opinion on the actual hand is that's it's close between pass and 4c. It's very likely that 3d is going down, and I think it's unlikely that we have a making game. Even if we do, I'm not sure we're necessarily going to be able to bid it while avoiding bad games. So I'll go with pass, but I could be persuaded to bid 4c.

[jdonn]

That analysis is dumbfounding. Double is not game forcing as you seem to suggest, this hand is a little better than you need. Your view that double is game forcing is warped, as is your idea of what partner should sit with. If you double and partner bids 3♥ or 4♣ you are welcome to pass if you don't think you have game. You are completely overthinking a very simple situation. I feel like I'm in bizarro world with this hand, there isn't even a logical alternative to doubling. This hand was a game force when partner opened, and you are downgrading it to not even fighting for a partscore because the opponents' bidding has made one jack in your hand wasted.

[pclayton]

1. Hate 3♥. You said 2♦ is waiting; therefore most play a double negative, and 3♥ would serve this role. 4♦ is clear; pard has a real hand for opening 2♣ with a minor single suiter. Oddly, 3♥ has elicited a useful call out of pard; 5♠. While I'm a leery about trusting the bids in this partnership, I can't do less than 7♦. Pard has a absolute monstrous 2 suiter; 5♠ shows a hand too good for 4♠. Anytime pard needs to open 2♣ with a 2 suiter, it is the Rock of Gibraltar. Frankly, 5♠ should represent a force through 6♦ which is what I would bid if I was busted.

 

2. (shrug). 5♥ I suppose. The double fit should give us some security.

 

3. Double. Classic action double; good hand - no clear direction.

 

4. Hate the system. My hand can hardly be worse. I'll raise to 5♦ instead of 4N or 5♣.

[cherdano]

For me, double on 3) could be anything from card-showing to competitive to action to takeout, but it is definitely not penalty when we are still looking for the right one among 4 possible strains. I am sure the style where this is penalty exists but I hope noone will ever force me to play it.

[mikegill]

I dunno I guess there is just a serious stylistic difference here. I don't view my style of playing this as a "penalty double." I view it as the same as you, a "values" double, but my criterion for "values" is just a Q stronger than yours, or so. I don't think the fact that it shows more values turns it from an "action" double or a "values" double into a "penalty" double as some are calling it. Nor do I think we are game forced if partner pulls the X. Maybe I failed to accurately communicate my thoughts in my previous post.

 

Because of this extra strength required for the X, I expect partner to pass more frequently than others do and have it be right. It seems like both these styles will gain sometimes and lose sometimes. I feel like that when partner has a normal hand with 2 diamonds that we will frequently want to play 3DX, when we have no diamond stopper and ~25-26 HCP (as we nearly always will if I have a slightly stronger hand and they've bid and raised freely). Our alternative is having partner pull then eventually having to play a 7-card major fit of unknown quality, or 5 of a minor when they're known to be taking the first two tricks. I'd rather take my sure +300 than either of those whenever possible, and my style is geared towards getting this decision right and never having to give up -470 in exchange. If partner has a singleton, he will pull the X, and it will be much, much more likely that we are making game somewhere.

 

This style loses on this particular hand. I'm kind of stuck - I'd like to bid but I'm not strong enough to X, so instead I have to guess. I could miss 3N if pard has a diamond card and long clubs. It's my opinion that I lose less from guessing to go passively here, than I lose when I have a Queen more and partner pulls my X and we go down in game when we could have collected from 3dX. Obviously, this is not the majority view, but it's just my opinion.