FP or not

[jillybean]

I'm not sure if this sequence creates a forcing pass or not. I think 2nt limits my partners hand (11-16 sayc) so any further action is voluntary.

 

1♦ (1♥) 2♦ (P)

2N (3♥) 4♦ (4♥)

P?

 

 

tyia

jb

[Gerben42]

2♦ was inverted minors? Whatever it is, it's not SAYC nor any standard I know.

 

To me 2♦ was a simple raise and 2NT was an invitation to 3NT (about 17 HCP).

 

As opener has limited his hand by inviting, pass is not forcing.

[jillybean]

2♦ was inverted minors? Whatever it is, it's not SAYC nor any standard I know.

No not inverted minors, 2♦ was a simple raise.

I didnt know 2nt rebid shows 17. I'd hope partner would open 1nt with 17points and the ability to bid 2nt after a simple minor raise.

[Gerben42]

Okay, then 2NT wasn't 11-16.

[han]

Yes, 2D showed 6-9 pts so 2NT shows a strong hand.

 

As Gerbern also pointed out, if you do play inverted minors in competition (not standard) then 2D shows a good hand and 2NT does not.

[jdonn]

2♦ was inverted minors? Whatever it is, it's not SAYC nor any standard I know.

No not inverted minors, 2♦ was a simple raise.

I didnt know 2nt rebid shows 17. I'd hope partner would open 1nt with 17points and the ability to bid 2nt after a simple raise.

2NT shows 18-19, the same as if partner responded on the 1 level and you rebid 2NT. If you are a balanced 12-14 you pass, if you are some 17 that wants to invite you don't bid 2NT since you can't be balanced (you didn't open 1NT).

[jillybean]

This is getting off topic but interesting anyway, :)

 

If 2nt rebid shows 18-19 and you have opened 1♦ on 4432 (say15-16) you must pass 2♦ and play in the 34 fit?

[whereagles]

If 2NT was not game-forcing, pass is not forcing either. Playing R/S's rules, it would be if opps go to the 5-level.

 

If 2NT was gf, it's fp as well :)

[jdonn]

This is getting off topic but interesting anyway, :)

 

If 2nt rebid shows 18-19 and you have opened 1♦ on 4432 (say15-16) you must pass 2♦ and play in the 34 fit?

That's what you get for doing something silly like opening a minor on a balanced hand in your notrump range :)

 

There is no way after opening a minor to show a balanced hand in your notrump range, ever.

[Echognome]

This is getting off topic but interesting anyway, :)

 

If 2nt rebid shows 18-19 and you have opened 1♦ on 4432 (say15-16) you must pass 2♦ and play in the 34 fit?

Presumably if you opened 1♦ on a 4432 15-16 count, then you are playing a weak NT and it's a different problem. Then I guess you would play 2NT showed the strong NT hand and 3NT was the 2NT rebid, but I'm not sure.

[han]

This is getting off topic but interesting anyway, :)

 

If 2nt rebid shows 18-19 and you have opened 1♦ on 4432 (say15-16) you must pass 2♦ and play in the 34 fit?

I open 1NT with a balanced hand and 15-16 points, I thought you did too.

 

If I play weak notrumps or if I have 14 points then I must pass 2D yes. This is not a problem.

[jillybean]

Correct 4432 (15-16) should be opened 1nt. :)

 

I need to think more the type of hand that isnt good enough for a 1nt opening and too good for a pass after 1m:2m

[P_Marlowe]

not forcing, 4D was not even

(highly) invitational, just comp.

=> you may have just the bal.

of power.

 

If opener wants to hit them, he

has to do it do it

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jillybean]

Back to the original reason for the post and now that we know 2nt is 18-19 and partners pass is nf :(

 

Dealer: West Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ 7 ♥ 73 ♦ 98653 ♣ A7532

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♦    1♥    2♦

 Pass  2NT   3♥    4♦

 4♥    Pass  Pass  ?  

[mike777]

Back to the original reason for the post and now that we know 2nt is 18-19 and partners pass is nf :(

 

Dealer: West Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ 7 ♥ 73 ♦ 98653 ♣ A7532

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♦    1♥    2♦

 Pass  2NT   3♥    4♦

 4♥    Pass  Pass  ?  

Looks like your partner was worth a 3d weak raise over 1h if that was an option. Cue with limit+

[cherdano]

2♦ was bad. You have a 5-5 hand with shortness in both majors - preempt! And then shut up!

 

If you raise once, then re-raise, and then still think about raising once more, there must have been something wrong with your original raise...

 

Arend

[P_Marlowe]

Back to the original reason for the post and now that we know 2nt is 18-19 and partners pass is nf :(

 

Dealer: West Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ 7 ♥ 73 ♦ 98653 ♣ A7532

 

West North East South

 

Pass 1♦ 1♥ 2♦

Pass 2NT 3♥ 4♦

4♥ Pass Pass ?

Hi,

 

pass, you have described your hand,

partner was not interested at all.

 

You may beat it (most likely), thats why no

5D bid, but than they may make it, because

partners diamonds honors may be worthless.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jillybean]

This was the full hand, it gets worse :ph34r:

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=s953ha54dakt72ck9&w=skt8642hj2dqjcj86&e=saqjhkqt986d4cqt4&s=s7h73d98653ca7532]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♦    1♥    2♦

 Pass  2NT   3♥    4♦

 4♥    Pass  Pass  5♦

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

Im not sure if I have got this straight at all,

Playing SAYC:

 

1♣:2♣

2nt = 15,16,17,18-19

 

1♣:1any

2nt = 18-19 also?

 

1♣:1any

2♣ = min, 6 cards

 

1♣:2♦/♥/♠

2nt = open to debate

 

1♣:1♠

2♥ = 16+

 

1♣:1♥

2♠ = 19+

 

1♣:1any

3♣ = 16-18 good 6 cards

 

I'm sure there are more..

[Guest Jlall]

1) 2N is a strong hand, but doesnt necessarily show 18-19 balanced. With say 4441 and 17 and strong hearts and stiff K of clubs, I might try 2N. With 2362 and 16 and hearts stopped and positional values I might try 2N, etc.

 

2) Pass is not forcing, both hands are limited.

 

3) In SAYC I think a jump to 3D is a limit raise, hence 2D.

 

4) I would double with the actual hand, I have an ace and a singleton and their auction is kind of retarded. We could be getting a large number. This hand is screaming to defend 4H X.

[Fluffy]

I wouldn't take 2NT as 18-19 but as 3451, 2362 or something rare on the 15-17 range that wants the right hand to declare.

 

It is a style issue of course, I don't know what its the standard.

[jdonn]

I should have said if it is balanced you have 18-19, but people are right other hands can make the bid, either hands that you hope are worth about the same (like maybe 16 with long diamonds) or slightly weaker hands without a better bid, like 4441 17. My main point is that there is no way it is ever 12-14 balanced, that hand would just pass, this 2NT bid is invitational to game.

[jillybean]

My main point is that there is no way it is ever 12-14 balanced, that hand would just pass, this 2NT bid is invitational to game.

Yeah of course, sorry. I tend to blast away with these comments without first thinking about it.