kgr Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=n&s=s3hkq32daj6ckj964]133|100|Scoring: IMP1C-1H??[/hv]Opps Silent. Do you bid 2H or 3H now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Depends on my mood :) 3H, I'm feeling good. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3H, wtp? With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjames Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3♥ for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 There's a modern tendency to upgrade these shapely mins into 3♥. I consider this one borderline, and the club dubious holding of KJ swings me towards 2♥ only. Incidently, playing weak NTs, 2♥ is quite ok, as it tends to show precisely this sort of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3♥ for me. It's near a minimum for jump raising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 2H. And it's not the absolute maximum for the bid either.3H shows the same playing strength as 18-19 balanced with 4 trumps, and I don't beleive this hand is so good. We have the right type of hand to raise to two only, because partner will look at cards such as controls, and good trumps, and fitting club honours to decide whether to make a game try or not, and those are all cards that will help make game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3H shows the same playing strength as 18-19 balanced with 4 trumps, and I don't beleive this hand is so good. Maybe in England it does. But elsewhere not necessarily... in a strong NT system, it's usual to bid 1m 1M2M = 12-14 bal or unbal3M = 15-17 unbal (15-17 bal opens 1NT)4M = 18-19 bal or unbal I guess under a weak NT it goes more like 1m 1M2M = 12-14 unbal or 15-17 bal3M = 18-19 bal4M = 18-19 unbal Am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3♥ for me. As I would bid 2♥ on xx Qxx A9xx KQ8xx, it seems to me the range for 2♥ would otherwise get too wide. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 3H shows the same playing strength as 18-19 balanced with 4 trumps, and I don't beleive this hand is so good. Maybe in England it does. But elsewhere not necessarily... in a strong NT system, it's usual to bid 1m 1M2M = 12-14 bal or unbal3M = 15-17 unbal (15-17 bal opens 1NT)4M = 18-19 bal or unbal I guess under a weak NT it goes more like 1m 1M2M = 12-14 unbal or 15-17 bal3M = 18-19 bal4M = 18-19 unbal Am I right? I play a strong NT system.If you are going to raise 1H to 4H on 18-19 balanced you'd better keep your 1-level responses (more than) up to strength. 3♥ for me. As I would bid 2♥ on xx Qxx A9xx KQ8xx, it seems to me the range for 2♥ would otherwise get too wide. Arend Make it a 13-card hand, and that still doesn't look like an opening bid. But to some extent the principle is correct: the simple raise to 2H should be the widest range of the three raises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 2H for me as well. As I would bid 3H on KQx KQxx Axx AJx 3H now seems like an overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I'd bid 3♥. For those bidding 2♥, keep in mind that the following hand produces an excellent game: xxxAxxxxxxQxx Do you make a game try with this hand? Really? What if opener had a very nice weak NT opening like Qxx KQxx xxx AKx opposite, where even 3♥ is not safe? Keep in mind that partner's hand could be ever so much worse than this, such as Kx Qxxx KJx Kxxx. Even if we switch the club and diamond holding, game is pretty decent at IMPs. Now there's not even the fitting honor for partner's club "suit" to justify a game try. Yes, I will force to game with a balanced 19. This can get me in trouble if partner has only four trumps and very minimum values. But if 3♥ is defined as "please bid game unless you are completely balanced with only four cards in your major and have 6 or fewer hcp" then the range of hands for 2♥ is simply too wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I'd bid 3♥. For those bidding 2♥, keep in mind that the following hand produces an excellent game: xxxAxxxxxxQxx Why do people always give these ridiculous constructions? The opponents have half the deck, 9 spades, a double fit, and good suits. If partner has this, why are they not bidding? This is not a possible hand. What purpose does this serve anyways.. if partner has KJxx xxxx KQx xx the 3 level isn't safe and you will bid game. Giving specific hands serves no point on a hand like this, but I would guess my construction is a lot more realistic than yours (when the opponents don't bid partner likely has either wastage in spades, length in spades, or a lot of points). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 The example hand (x KQxx AJx KJxxx) has 6 losers (and LTC doesn't count jacks). It has a ZAR point total of at least 31. It is more than a king better than an opening bid once a heart fit has been established. Counting 3 points for a singleton in a 4-trump hand, it is 17 hcp. Opposite this hand, many holdings for partner which include Axxxx of hearts will make game good at IMPs, regardless of the rest of the hand. I just don't think making the same 2♥ bid with: xKQxxAJxKJxxx and xxxKQxxQJxKJx is particularly good bridge, nor do I see what partner is supposed to do on the many hands where game is routine opposite the first opener and 3♥ has little play opposite the second opener. As for complaining about "where are the opponents spades" would this hand be worth a 3♥ bid? AJxKQxxxKJxxx It's certainly more likely that opponents have a bunch of diamonds and never bid, or that partner has diamond length he never showed, than the same in spades. Does this "upgrade" an effectively identical hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I just don't think making the same 2♥ bid with: xKQxxAJxKJxxx and xxxKQxxQJxKJx is particularly good bridge, nor do I see what partner is supposed to do on the many hands where game is routine opposite the first opener and 3♥ has little play opposite the second opener. You are right, opening the second hand is terrible bridge. It forces you to have to overbid 3♥ on these hands just to keep your ranges feasible. 2♥ for me, 3♥ doesn't help partner evaluate anyway, so he will almost always be accepting. And 18-19 balanced should be bidding 3♥ most of the time (though lots of people err and always bid 4 with that) and that hand is much better than this. I would only bid 3♥ if I had methods to let me show spade shortness on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted May 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Thanks all for the answers.I only bid 2H and wondered if it was enough. So I'm mostly surprised by Frances' and and Justins answers that this hand is not even a maximum for 3H. Maybe these answers are influenced by using responses that are weaker then standard (less then 6 HCP)?Only for completeness:[hv=d=e&v=n&n=sj85haj985dk7ca85&w=skt942h6dqt98ct32&e=saq76ht74d5432cq7&s=s3hkq32daj6ckj964]399|300|Scoring: IMP1C-1H2H-4H[/hv]Making 4H+2 (do you want to be in 6 only seeing NS cards?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 I suppose you want to be in 6 with the NS cards since if you can ruff 2 spades you can cash the AK of clubs and then have a squeeze/finesse position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Unless you can pinpoint spade shortness somehow, I don't think you can reach slam on correct bidding after 3♥ either since it's ridiculous to cooperate after bidding 3♥. Missing this slam is hardly a crime anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Opening the second hand is terrible bridge. It's ridiculous to cooperate... Thank you Master Donn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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