lots of clubs

[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ 7 ♥ 6 ♦ AK6 ♣ AKQ96432

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     2♣

 Pass  2♥    4♠    ?

  

 

Do you agree with the 2♣ opening and how do you continue?

[pbleighton]

I would have opened 5C, which is what I bid now.

 

Peter

[cherdano]

I would have opened 2♣ and will bid 5♣ now.

[gwnn]

What Arend said.

[jdonn]

I'm a little disappointed in the answers so far :D

 

I would have opened 4NT specific ace blackwood, taking a slight chance of the 3rd round diamond loser since I can't see what auction will let me figure that out anyway. Any other opening complicates matters unnecessarily, though of course if you play a 4NT opening bid as something else (or don't know what you play it as) then the hand is easily worth 2♣.

 

5♣ opening (not vul!) is not of this planet. Partner will pass with A A Q that you need for the grand slam, not even being certain that 5♣ will make. It is a PREEMPT. With this shape it would look more like x x Kxx KQJTxxxx.

 

In the problem given I completely disagree with 5♣ now, clear 6♣ bid in my opinion. Partner will virtually never raise if I bid 5♣, why shouldn't he just have AK of hearts? Take a chance, partner made a positive response and I need hardly anything for slam!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would say, you can throw a dice,

either bid 5C (taking the sure money)

or bid 6C.

 

It depends a little bid on the meaning

of 2H, how good is the suit.

 

And I would say 2C is ok, but so is 1C.

Having opened 1C, planning to rebid 5C

would have worked great, 5C now, well

..., partner may bid 6C with heart King /

Queen and no wastage in spades.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

I'm fine with a 2♣ opener. 10 trick hands with 6 controls are not opened with 1 bids, and sure as heck aren't preempted.

 

The preempt has fixed me, but assuming that 2♥ shows a decent suit, I'll try 6♣.

 

If you think pard is going to bid 6♣ over 5♣ with poor trump support and an open spade suit, you are dreaming.

[whereagles]

It's a guess, and I guess 5♣.

[jillybean]

I dont play 4nt opening as specific Ace ask but I like the sounds of it :D

I blasted 5♣ and didn't think until afterwards that partners 2♥ bid all but guarantees what I need for slam.

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=st42hak854d9874c5&w=sq3hqj972dqj32cjt&e=sakj9865ht3dt5c87&s=s7h6dak6cakq96432]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     2♣

 Pass  2♥    4♠    5♣

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[neilkaz]

I open 2♣ since I have 10 tricks and for me, 5♣ NV would not be close to this good, and my defence isn't hopeless.

 

After PD's 2♥ positive response, I think 6♣ is a clear favorite to make so I bid it now.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[jdonn]

I dont play 4nt opening as specific Ace ask but I like the sounds of it  :D

It doesn't come up much but this would sure be a good hand for it! The responses aren't hard.

 

5♣ = no aces.

5♦/♥/♠/NT = that ace (5NT = ace of clubs)

6♣ = 2 aces.

 

Or you can reverse 5NT and 6♣, it doesn't matter. You would just pick whichever way you can remember more easily since it's such a rare bid.

[mikeh]

jb: I disagree with your conclusion that partner's 2♥ bid showed you that you can make slam.

 

Give her KQx KQJxxx xx x and on a bad day 5♣ goes down :( Ok, a really, really bad day with a trump lead from J108x.

 

The point is that the 2♥ bid gave you NO useful information in terms of major suit aces or third round ♦ control.

 

So I think you have to bid 5♣: partner should know that hands that open 2♣, intending to rebid a minor, are almost always based on extremely good suits.. so on some, but by no means all, hands on which slam is cold, she may be able to bid it.

 

As for the opening bid: I am not happy with 2♣ and I agree that the 4N Ace asking is useful, but I am not surprised that you didn't play it. I am not at all sure what I would open: it would be either 2♣ or 1♣... 5♣ is just silly. I'd rather open 6♣ than 5... and I woldn't do that either.

 

I wouldn't worry about drawing any rules about opening bids (ie 1 level or 2♣)from this hand: if you play a LOT of bridge for the next 30 years, you may come across a similar hand, but otherwise, just accept that no bridge system deals well with complete freaks like this.

[Apollo81]

What about 4NT RKC for ♥? At the very least we can stop short of slam if partner has 0 keycards. I agree 6♣ is a better bid than 5♣.

 

I guess we can only do this if partner will pass our 6♣ signoff (and doesn't take it as asking).

[Edmunte1]

I agree with 2♣. I would have passed 4♠, showing a offensive hand without ♥ fit. If partner doubles, i'll bid 5♣. If partner bids something (normal with 3 controls and nothing lost in spades), i'll bid 6♣

[jdonn]

I agree with 2♣. I would have passed 4♠, showing a offensive hand without ♥ fit. If partner doubles, i'll bid 5♣. If partner bids something (normal with 3 controls and nothing lost in spades), i'll bid 6♣

I know this is the B/I forum, but since you bring up forcing passes anyway, expert standard = your auction shows both minors and offers two places to play, not a better hand with clubs.

[pclayton]

6♣ is just a guess, and it turned out right. Mike's example is valid, although I'd bet we have more hands where 6♣ makes than it doesn't make, but thats why I guessed to bid it in the first place.

[mikeh]

6♣ is just a guess, and it turned out right. Mike's example is valid, although I'd bet we have more hands where 6♣ makes than it doesn't make, but thats why I guessed to bid it in the first place.

I agree that there are more slam hands than game hands, but that is not quite fair. Some slam hands will get to slam after 5♣ (after all, the auction starting with 2♣ and then bidding 5♣ is not a weak sequence). So the real question is whether bidding 5♣ will miss more making slams than will bidding 6♣ result in going down (ignoring grand slam hands for now)

 

I don't know the answer and the conditions of contest (including what RHO needs for 4♠) are difficult to specify with sufficient precision such that I won't bother with a simulation

[jdonn]

Responder will bid a lot more slams in the post mortem than at the table if you bid 5♣. I think he will almost never raise, unless you are making 7.

[the hog]

I don't like the 2C opening. I cetainly don't like a 5C opening. If a specific A ask was available, I think that is the best opening bid, else I would have opened 1C.

 

Now I just punt 6C. KC for H is a pointless bid as responder will treat the K of H as a KC of course. If he only shows 1 KC I am no better off than before, and if he shows 2 we could be cold for 13 tricks or off an Ace.

[inquiry]

I don't like the 2C opening. I cetainly don't like a 5C opening. If a specific A ask was available, I think that is the best opening bid, else I would have opened 1C.

 

Now I just punt 6C. KC for H is a pointless bid as responder will treat the K of H as a KC of course. If he only shows 1 KC I am no better off than before, and if he shows 2 we could be cold for 13 tricks or off an Ace.

Too bad you don't have an ACOL two bid in a minor for this hand. Some system allow for that.

[whereagles]

It's not just an ace. The 3rd diamond is a loser last time I checked. There are 3 cards to cover and is unlikely pard will cover one of those (♠A). That requires pd to have either ♥AK or ♥A♦Q. Seems a bit optimistic, but...

[helene_t]

I would probably have opened 6♣ but certainly considered 1♣. 2♣ is not my style but I don't think it's very wrong. 5♣ would be a huge underbid.

 

Now I'd pass, planning to show slam interest by taking partner's double out to 5♣. Not sure if partner should bid 6, then. (FWIW, I prefer to play a direct bid as stronger than pass in such a situation, but that's non-standard).

[jdonn]

It's not just an ace. The 3rd diamond is a loser last time I checked. There are 3 cards to cover and is unlikely pard will cover one of those (♠A). That requires pd to have either ♥AK or ♥A♦Q. Seems a bit optimistic, but...

Or the queen of hearts allows a finesse since LHO is much more likely to be long in hearts. Or the jack of diamonds lets the queen fall. Or the opponents screw up since they have about 59 discards to make and you didn't tell them about your shape outside clubs. Or you squeeze LHO who is much more likely to be long in the red suits. Or partner is something like 3622 and you get to ruff a diamond. There is absolutely no way to find out if the third diamond is a loser, but I guarantee you that you will not lose it a lot more frequently than you will lose it on a hand this good.

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies.

If this hand comes up again in the next 30 years and I open 4nt specific ace ask is there a good chance my pick up BBO Expert/Advanced player will know what Im bidding?

[helene_t]

Thanks for the replies.

If this hand comes up again in the next 30 years and I open 4nt specific ace ask is there a good chance my pick up BBO Expert/Advanced player will know what Im bidding?

Yes I think so. Provided it's a real adv/exp.