Basic Distribtuion Count Question

[Simmpleton]

I have read at least three different ways to count distributional points:

 

1. Count long suits and add for shortness once trump fit is found

 

2. Count short suits and then increase the count once trump fit is found

 

3. Count only HCP and then add for short suits only when trump fit is found

 

Which system do you use and why?

[Stephen Tu]

I use a 4th method, count for both long suits + shortness.

 

I don't particularly like your #3; long suits are fairly valuable in notrump when a trump fit is not found, if you have sufficient honors in the suit to set up the length tricks. An AKQxxx suit is obviously worth substantially more in trick taking power than AKQx.

#2 will account for the long suit indirectly, since a long suit creates shortness elsewhere.

 

Of the others, it really doesn't matter what method you use, in principle they should all end up approximately the same in the end if you are using the 4321 scale as your HCP base. As you get better, you start making lots more adjustments other than length/shortness, you start to evaluate how well your honors & suit lengths are placed in relation to suits shown by partner & the opponents. Adding up points becomes just an initial estimate; for close decisions you should imagine typical hands for partner, play the hand out in your head, & analyze how many tricks you would typically make. One rule of thumb for inviting (game or slam) is to imagine partner with a perfect minimum for his bidding; if that makes it laydown, you should invite.

[goobers]

If you want a really quick and easy brainless way, just count HCP + your short suits. If partner bids your short suit and you have not managed to find a fit, then stop counting your short suits; they are not helping partner.

 

Also, if your short suit contains honors, count either the short suit or the honors, not both.

 

After a while, you tend to start looking at the hand as a whole, and this becomes less of a problem.

[inquiry]

Bridge hands are kinda funny. If you have a short suit, you will have a long suit (4441 being a bit odd ball). Lets assume you will either add one point for each card shorter than 3, or one point for each card longer than 4 in your primary long suit, and one point for each card over 3 in any secondary suit.

 

So for example, 5431, you can add a point for the fifth card and a second point for the one four card second suit or +2 points. Or you can add two points for the singleton. How about the 4441? The first 4 card suit gets nothing, the second two get one point each. Or you can count 2 points for the singleton. Two points either way. How about 6331? Two points (one for 5th and one for 6th in long suit, or two points for the singelton). How about 13-0-0-0? The long suit has 9 cards more than 4 for 9 points, or you can add 3 points for each void, also for 9 points.

 

Does it really matter too much if you add points for long suits or points for short suits? Basically, one gives rise to the other. Do which ever you feel most comfortable with. I use Zar points and count distributional values via Zar rules.

[helene_t]

Before a fit is found: estimate the value of your hand in a notrump contract. Unless you have ten or more cards in the two longest suit and the longer is a major (in that case you're unlikely to end up playing in notrump). This basically boils down to HCPs. You may add or subtract a little (rarely more than one HCP) but that has more to do with honour structure than with distribution. Axxxx is barely better than Axxx but KQJTx is worth at least one-and-a-half HCP more than KQJT.

 

After a major suit fit is found: I use Lost Trick Counts, which is roughly equivalent to:

Ace: 4.5 points

King: 3 points

Queen: 1.5 points

Void: 9 points

Singleton: 6 points

Doubleton: 3 points

 

Note that unguarded honors (K sec or Qx) are not counted.

 

The valuation of the short suits may seem excesive, but since you have 13 cards in total, short suits mean that you have long suits as well. In fact, the formula factors in that you tend to have more trumps when you have short suits, but it would be more accurate to use trump length directly: Extra trump length (9-card fit when partner only knows of the 8 of them): 3 points. But that would require somewhat lower valuation of the short suits. One day I'll construct the complete formula and post it here :)

 

Adjust a little for honour structure, in particular (lack of) minor trump honours when you have only an 8-card fit. Also take control redundancy into account: a short suit is not very helpful if partner rates to have values and/or shortness in that suit.

[Apollo81]

I used to tell my B/I students to count long suits unless supporting partner's major (then count only short suits)

 

This tends to be too confusing for the beginners so I just tell them to count short suits except in notrump.

 

Details:

-most of the time, count HCP plus 1 point for each card in a suit beyond the 4th

-subtract 1 from the above for a bad suit

-if supporting partner's major:

---with 3 card support, count void=3, singleton=2, doubleton=1

---with 4+ support, count void=5, singleton=3, doubleton=1

-don't double-count honors in short suits.

[pdmunro]

I use the following, which is basically what I was taught, based on Klinger.

 

How you evaulate your hand in terms of points depends on whether you have

(a) the hand with the long trump suit, or you have

(b) the supporting hand.

 

(a) Hand with long trump suit

 

Determine your total points (TP) using

TP = high card points (HCP) + length points (LP)

 

where HCP:   A=4   K=3  Q=2  J=1;   and

LP: 1 point for 5th, 6th, etc. trump.

 

(b) Supporting hand

 

Determine your total points (TP) using

TP = high card points (HCP) + shortage points (SP)

 

where SP: void=5, doubleton=3, singleton=1.

 

If you have a void, your partner should be able to ruff twice with your hand, so it is certainly as good as a KQ (5 points, 2 tricks). Similarly, if you have a singleton, your partner should be able to ruff once with your hand, so a singleton is certainly as good as a K (3 points, 1 trick).

 

Point Requirements for Game Contracts

3NT     25 HCP

4H/4S   26 TP

5D     29 TP

slam     33 TP

g. slam     37 TP

 

Example

North   S: AQxxxx   H: xx     D: Ax     C: KQx

 

South    S: xxx    H: Kxx   D: KQxxx   C: xx

 

North evaluates: 15 HCP + 2 LP = 17 TP (total points)

South evaluates: 8 HCP + 1 SP = 9 TP

 

Bidding:

1S - 2S -

3S* - 4S** -

 

* Game invite

** Invite accepted

 

Reevaluation of my hand

1) I don't count points for a singleton K or for doubleton Qx, unless my partner has bid that suit.

(2) If I have DK but my LHO bids D, I no longer expect to win a trick with that K, so I no longer count it.

(3) If I have no support for partner's suit, we have a misfit and I have to be cautious in my bidding.

(4) Similarly, if partner has not supported my suit, it is likely the opponents have length in it, so I only continue to bid the suit with extra length. And I only proceed to game in the suit, if the suit is good enough not to need help from partner.

[Flame]

When it come to opening bid make it as simple as possible count HCP if you get 12 open if you have less user bergen rule of 20. (only when the points are in the long suits)

Don't do more then that, experts dont do more then that.

Only when the bidding progress you can really make changes to your hand evaluation.

Example dont pass 12 hcp (unless its really triable)

Dont open 1NT with 14 or 18.

[Winstonm]

I have read at least three different ways to count distributional points:

 

1.  Count long suits and add for shortness once trump fit is found

 

2.  Count short suits and then increase the count once trump fit is found

 

3.  Count only HCP and then add for short suits only when trump fit is found

 

Which system do you use and why?

I suggest none of the above - it is an error in my view to become enslaved to "rules" such as these. It is enough simply to understand that shape adds value to a hand while lack of shape reduces its value. That is the whole point in trying to quantify values of long-suit/short suit: a 4333 hand has no extra value, while a 5332 pattern has a slight extra value.

 

Take these hands:

xxxxx, xxxxx, A, AK

versus

AKxxx, Axxxx, x, xx.

 

If you simply add points and longsuit/shortsuit values these hands would be equal; a bridge player with good instincts or a good grasp of the game would know that the second hand is vastly superior to the first.

 

The other consideration that is worth more than adding for shape is interiors in the hand, i.e., what do the spot cards look like and where are they located.

AK542

versus

AK1098

 

To think these two holdings are equal because of length is to misunderstand the importance of secondary values.

 

So I wouldn't worry about winning a argument based on "well, I had this many points" so had to bid - instead, count high cards, notice where they are located in relationship to your long suits, the quality of those high cards, and then simply notice if your hand is "beefy" or "thin", depending on spot cards, and whether or not is is shapely or rather flat.

 

When it is shapely or "beefy", it is a better hand; when it is flat or "thin" it is not worth as much. And that's really all that one needs to know.