Support with three ?

[plaur]

[hv=d=s&s=s93hk65dkj5caq654]133|100|[/hv]

A: 1♣ - (p) - 1♥ - (p) - ? (Opps silent)

B: 1♣ - (1♠) - X - (p) - ?

 

In A I bid 2♥ 100%. It is exactly what my beginner system tells me to do. Its what my partner expects. NO need to bid 2♣ or 1NT when I have a perfectly normal bid!

 

In B I also bid 2♥ without hesitation. Why do experts Washington Bridge League Solver's Club - Jan/Feb 2007 dislike 2♥ so much in B, that they rather rebid 1NT or 2♣ ?

 

Is this a matter of style or is there some bridge-logic behind it, that I dont get?

 

Original thread Pick a partsscore, MPs in Advanced/Expert.

[bid_em_up]

Dealer: South Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ 93 ♥ K65 ♦ KJ5 ♣ AQ654

A: 1♣ - (p) - 1♥ - (p) - ?  (Opps silent)

B: 1♣ - (1♠) - X - (p) - ?

 

In A I bid 2♥ 100%. It is exactly what my beginner system tells me to do. Its what my partner expects. NO need to bid 2♣ or 1NT when I have a perfectly normal  bid!

 

In B I also bid 2♥ without hesitation. Why do experts Washington Bridge League Solver's Club - Jan/Feb 2007 dislike  2♥ so much in B, that they rather rebid 1NT or 2♣ ?

 

Is this a matter of style or is there some bridge-logic behind it, that I dont get?

 

Original thread Pick a partsscore, MPs in Advanced/Expert.

In hand A, the "logic" is, since neither opponent bid (LHO over 1C, RHO over 1H), makes it more likely that either 1) neither opponent has good values, 2) neither opponent has decent spades, and 3) partner can always have 5+ hearts here and his values are unlimited. If you have a game, the most likely game will be 4H, and they desire to make the most encouraging call possible.

 

In hand B, the "logic" is, an opponent bid 1S. Now you know one opponent definitely has at least 5 spades (discounting 4 card overcalls). You also know that partners values are limted by the negative double. In this case, you really don't want to encourage partner, unless he has at least 5 hearts.

 

If you are going to play NT, it should be from partners side. If you are going to play in a suit, you know for certain you will likely be forced to ruff a spade by trick 3, and your 4-3 fit, just became a 4-2 fit, making it more difficult to handle.

 

The 1S overcall also makes it less likely that a 4-3 fit will play well, as it increases the chances of a 4-2 or 5-1 heart break. So it is slightly better in hand B to play a 5-2 club fit. 5-2 fits normally play better than 4-3 fits anyway.

[pbleighton]

FWIW, a lot of good players will rebid 1NT on your first hand. The standard meaning of 2H is 4+ hearts, but bridge involves a lot of non-standard bids. I would rebid 2H myself, but make the KH the QH, and it would be a very close call.

 

Peter

[whereagles]

In A I bid 2♥ 100%. It is exactly what my beginner system tells me to do. Its what my partner expects. NO need to bid 2♣ or 1NT when I have a perfectly normal bid!

 

In B I also bid 2♥ without hesitation. Why do experts Washington Bridge League Solver's Club - Jan/Feb 2007 dislike 2♥ so much in B, that they rather rebid 1NT or 2♣ ?

A. Supporting with 3 cards is ok but I'm a bit suspicious of its soundness when the hand is rather FLAT.

 

B. huh... maybe because they don't like to play the moysian with that flattish hand?

[pbleighton]

"Supporting with 3 cards is ok but I'm a bit suspicious of its soundness when the hand is rather FLAT."

 

Yes, I think raising with 3 to an honor with a stiff is pretty much a no-brainer,but with a balanced hand it's a lot closer.

 

Peter

[cherdano]

One difference is that in auction A, partner has 4+ hearts, whereas in auction B partner either has exactly 4 hearts, or is weakish.

[mike777]

If playing with a pickup partner I just pass this hand in first seat. ;) I think these hands/auctions are far from easy to bid for us nonexperts. If the opp. bid game with partner always passing, I will just pass, not double.

[awm]

There are of course some differences:

 

-- In competition, the double is either a bad hand with 5+♥ or any hand with 4♥. Without competition, 1♥ could be a good hand with 5+♥.

 

-- In competition, a 1NT bid suggests something about the spade suit. It's not clear that a stopper is necessary but many partners will assume one. Without competition it is normal to rebid 1NT with a side suit unstopped (no reason opps must lead this suit, or that it can't break 4-4 or 4-3).

 

-- In competition, further competition is more likely. After 1♣-P-1♥-P usually the opponents will continue passing. After 1♣-1♠-X-P it is not unlikely that opener's LHO will bid again.

 

With all that said, I still think bidding 2♥ here after the double is fine. It depends somewhat on whether partner is more likely to blast 4♥ on a four-card suit with good spades over the 2♥ rebid, or to blast 3NT with no spade stopper over a 1NT rebid.

[Flame]

I think in washington standard bidding 2♥ in A alwas shows 4 card support.

[Gerben42]

I don't know about Washington standard even if it's not a newspaper, but why bid 2♥ on A if you have a perfectly normal bid, 1NT?

 

On the 2nd hand, partner won't have a 5th ♥, yet 2♥ might still be the top contract. Basically you have to guess if pd will bid again. If not, 2♥ probably works. If yes, it overstates your ♥s.