7? You really got to 7?

[Guest Jlall]

Apportion the blame, worst call, you know the drill.

 

[hv=v=b&n=sakjxxxhajxxdcjxx&s=sxxxhxxxdajcakxxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

2D multi by west, 4S by north, 5C by south, 5D by north, 5S by south, 6H by north, 7S by south. Down 3.

[mike777]

1) worst call=4s

2) second worst call=5D

75% North

[awm]

This depends a bit on agreements over the multi. However, 4♠ has to be an overbid either on strength or shape (only 6 trumps, about 7 tricks, no reason to think they have much of a heart fit with so many in hand). South hand looks like it will contribute at least 3 tricks plus the possibly useful doubleton diamond, diamond jack, club length etc... since north's 4♠ normally should promise in the vicinity of 9 tricks I think the cuebid is clear. The continuations depend a little bit on cuebidding style -- to what degree is it mandatory for north to cue these first round controls? It's quite possible that stylistically, north "cannot" put on the brakes when there are first round controls yet to be shown. So it's hard to figure out whose fault reaching the seven-level might be.

 

Nonetheless north's 4♠ bid takes the full blame for reaching the six level, so I'm happy to give 100% blame to north.

[cherdano]

I don't understand 4♠ either. I don't think cues are mandatory in this auction, so 5♦ is unclear, and 6♥ an overbid. Advancer's bidding up to 5♠ is impeccably, but I think 7♠ was an overbid. He knows about the diamond void, so his hand is not that great, as there might be club and heart losers to deal with.

[Halo]

I think 4S is an overbid (0% of the blame)

 

Several reasonable bids then ...

 

I think 7S gets 100% blame. Crazy gamble.

[pclayton]

1. 4♠ is excessive, but I don't think it contributed directly to the accident. I'd bid 3.

 

2. I prefer 5♠, not 5♣.

 

3. 6♥ looks OK, and is consistent with 4♠ anyway.

 

4. 7♠. Huh, what? This is really out of left field for me.

 

South: 75%, North 25%

[Winstonm]

4S - everything that came after was affected by this first action.

[cherdano]

3. 6♥ looks OK, and is consistent with 4♠ anyway.

I don't understand your comment. Do you think 6♥ is a mandatory cuebid? Otherwise, as North is subminimum for 4♠, how can he make a grand slam try?

 

Arend

[Guest Jlall]

He knows about the diamond void

This implies that north cannot have the DK and the HA. Is this the general consensus?

[mikeh]

I join the chorus of detractors of the 4♠ bid: it is an overbid by about 2 tricks, on my scale.

 

5♣ is ok: it is a clear cue: we don't correct 4♠ to 5♣s.

 

I hate 5♦. I truly dislike cuebidding shortness at my first call, and the 7♠ call sure sounds as if S agrees with me: AKJxxxx Ax KQx x would be the kind of hand I would picture as S, but not with sufficient confidence that I'd bid 7n :)

 

Of course, much does depend on cue bidding style, but I like my first cue to say something about where I live.

 

Unfortunately, after 4♠, N is, in my view, obligated to cue over 5♣.. he cannot now hide controls because he had overbid originally. So I would cue 5♥, and S cannot stop short of small slam and can easily picture AKQxxxx Ax xx Qx, so must cue 6♦, which will get us to 6♠, for a horrible result.

 

So, in my view, 4♠ is the worst, since it dooms us to -200 at imps, for -13.

 

5♦ is the next worst, since it dooms us to -300, for a loss of 14 imps.

 

BTW, the 5♦ call is even worse than the above analysis suggests. North can be morally certain that S will sign off in 5♠ unless he holds a stiff or void ♥... so by bidding 5♦, he knows that S will have to bid 5♠ on, say, Qxxx xx Kx AKQJ10x: where 13 tricks are cold... so he trapped himself into cue-bidding 6♥ which HAS to be a grand slam try... as it would and should be opposite that S hand. And this is predictable!

 

4♠ 80%, 5[D] 20%, N 100%

 

7♠ is easy to laugh at: but only because we can see that N doesn't hold the hand he described. S made a bold bid: an aggressive call, but a call that rated, at least, to find a hand that offered a play for 13 tricks and that might have got to a 14 top trick grand. So he gets no blame from me

[Edmunte1]

1. 4♠ is by far the worst call, purely based on the fact that having ♥ length it's a good chance to catch ♥ fit. I think even 3♠ is a slight overbid. Usually it's difficult to recover after the first initial mistake, so i'll give this a 90%.

2. 5♣ good bid, 5 controls, fit and a source of tricks

3. 5♦ - consequence of 4♠ bid

4. 5♠ - normal bid, i don't have ♥ control

5. 6♥ - i have first round control in ♥ and i'd like to play SEVEN. Another poor bid -5% blame

6. 7♠ - i understood that partner has something like AKQxxxx Axx --- ?xx, or maybe AKQxxxx Axxx ---- ?x, overbid hoping some good breaks and maybe the Q♣ -5% blame

 

So North 95%, South 5% seems right

[Finch]

North was bidding a different hand.

 

(That's what everyone else is saying, but I can say it in fewer words.)

[helene_t]

Agree with Frances. 33.3333% of the blame to each of North's bids. (Except for passing 7♠, that was ok).

[Fluffy]

I blame south for 5♣, if partner wanted to investigate slam he would had bid 3♠.

 

EDIT: Sorry I didn't look closely to bidding, 6♥ was too optimistic, 5 or 6♠ would be ok.

 

Rest of biddings can be not best, but are no gross mitakes.

[Apollo81]

The 4♠ call looks like the worst one to me.

 

My knee-jerk reaction would probably be to bid only 2♠ with that hand.

[Halo]

I think you need to know the players methods if you want to get into this in depth.

 

It seems people assume North has shown a solid 7-carder with good outside controls. Four spades wouldn't be my choice on such a hand - but I don't know about this partnership.

[dake50]

Kaplan-ism: where's the hand you had in the auction??

[Halo]

Whoah

 

South's in the clear Hmm.

[Guest Jlall]

As you may have surmised, I was south. I thought my partners 4S bid was crazy to be honest.

 

When I bid 7 I was thinking of something like AKseventh + the HA + the DK which isnt even really that much. I knew there was some risk we'd be off a trump trick, and some layouts where we need 4-2 clubs or better.

 

This board was a push with the other table in 6S-3

[Finch]

I gave the South hand to my other half. He ummed & aahed over 4S, and then said "I'll assume he's got a heart control, it makes the auction easier" and bid Blackwood, ending in 6S (we would play 5S over 4S as a general try, not asking for a heart control). When I forced him to cue 5C he had your auction to 7S.

 

I then told him that 6S really only needs spades 2-2 and he said "trumps 2-2? how many spades are there in this pack?"

[dogsbreath]

hi

 

Just a point here .. if i read the original post correctly, 2D is multi .. no-one mentioned this in the discussion .. but the opener could have a weak 2 Major ,, even possibly weak2 in spades .. so the 4S bid is daft. (I know we can see from the layout that the ops have diamonds) North must not act so precipitately unless the 2d can be passed.

 

Rgds Dog

[keylime]

Am going to give equal blame to both players. North for the slight overbid of 4S with a four card heart suit, and South, for not realizing that to have a grand slam try he/she should have some sort of control in the majors to keep going.

[skjaeran]

4♠ was a huge overbid.

The correct overcall is 2♠ (or equivalent according to methods - double in my methods).

7♠ by Justin was a little optimistic. You'd expect a grand to have play after this sequence, but worse than normal breaks are expected. I'd therefore bid 6♠. I'd give north 80% of the blame and south 20%.

[Fluffy]

ups sorry I didn't mean to blame 5♣, it was a joke (glups)

[Halo]

I don't think many ACBL players play against multi 2D.

 

You want actually to play in 2S with the North hand? That's your value bid over a possible weak hand. Not for me.