Another balancing problem

[1eyedjack]

[hv=v=n&s=sa74hqt83dkqj83cq]133|100|Scoring: IMP

LHO deals and opens 1♠ followed by 2 passes[/hv]I guessed to double and was rewarded by 2♥ from partner. But I worry about 2♣ from partner. I would have had to remove that to 2♦ but I reckon that would show a strong jump overcall. I figured that the lesser weevil, but swap my minors and I would have hated to pull 2♦ to 3♣.

 

Would I have been better to protect with 1NT (natural)? As the cards lie we would still have ended in 2♥

 

Do those of you who play Raptor do it also in protective position (probably a beginner question, but I have never played Raptor)? Perhaps there is a case for protecting in 2 minor to show that minor and the unbid major, and then just pass or bid 3 minor with a minor single suiter.

[mhais]

:rolleyes: i will bid dbl 2 show 4 cards h & opening values if u r using different syst it is a different story.

[helene_t]

You do have extras for a balancing double, but unless playing ELC you're probably a tad weak.

 

My choice would be 1NT.

[Fluffy]

I see nothing wrong with just bidding your suit

[1eyedjack]

I see nothing wrong with just bidding your suit

Thanks Fluffy.

Partner held

[hv=v=n&s=sq82hkj654d7ck764]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Would you Pass or bid over 2D from partner? If you pass, do you just chalk it up to a statistical possibility on which you were destined for a bad result?

[Fluffy]

2♥ is an option, but I wouldn't blame him to pass.

[mcphee]

One does not balance double with this sort of hand, you do not have C. While bidding 1NT holds appeal what is wrong with 2D? You have a great suit although only 5 cards and partner is allowed to bid. Bidding 1NT here strikes me as a poor option, short C is no bonus and only 1S stop before we hope to the the D on the move may result in being cut off from your main source of tricks.

 

With a jump in our suit after 2 passes indicating an intermeadiate hand it is quite sensible for parnter to bid 2H over the balancing bid of 2D which hardly overstates values when they could not bid over 1S.

[whereagles]

Dbl and pull the likely 2♣ response to 2♦. Easy bidding :rolleyes:

[david_c]

Do those of you who play Raptor do it also in protective position (probably a beginner question, but I have never played Raptor)?

No, Raptor is off in protective position. I would bid 2♦.

[MFA]

I would balance with 1NT. The stiff club makes a double too ugly.

[Codo]

1. Raptor is on for me, because this is easier to remember, so no problem with this hand.

2. Without raptor, 2 Diamond is fine.

3. Whether pd should bid on or not after 2 Diamonds depends on your agreements. If 2 Diamond is heavy limited (it is just 10 to 13 in our FD+) then he should pass. But if you can have up to 18 HCPS or so, he should make another move and pray.

[gwnn]

I really hate ELC and hence play Raptor, but not in bal. seat. So I second whereagles.

[Guest Jlall]

I'd bid 2D as X then 2D for me is not ELC. I also could not imagine playing raptor after 1S p p, I mean surely you need a natural 1N in pass out seat.

[gwnn]

(...)X then 2D for me is not ELC.(...)

You made me curious, what is it for you?

[Fluffy]

nat, on whatever range you like, typically something like 14+

[mikeh]

I would double, planning to convert 2♣ to 2♦. I do not play ELC, but in balance seat, a single suited good hand (say 13-16 hcp with a 6 card suit) is shown (for me) by a jump overcall: this is a standard treatment, and is different from direct seat bidding.

 

So double followed by 2♦ cannot be the same hand.

 

I agree that this sequence shows a (slightly) stronger hand: Axx KQxx KQJxx x would be fewer hcp but a better hand, and I'd be comfortable with the sequence on that hand.

 

I'd rather slightly overbid, via double and correct, than make the perhaps technically correct bid of 2♦ because of the 4 card ♥ suit. While partner should probably bid 2♥ with the actual hand (I say probably because I cannot be objective, knowing the hands), he wouldn't/shouldn't with 3=4=1=5.

 

Besides, partner doesn't ALWAYS make the bid you dread :P

 

So the 'flexible' (the expert buzzword strikes again) double seems to be a good choice.

[1eyedjack]

Mikeh, would your answer change if your minors were reversed? You see the problem, of course - partner may respond 2♦ to a double.

[pclayton]

In order:

 

1. Double (followed by 2♦ over 2♥);

2. 2♦

3. 1N

[skjaeran]

I would double, planning to convert 2♣ to 2♦. I do not play ELC, but in balance seat, a single suited good hand (say 13-16 hcp with a 6 card suit) is shown (for me) by a jump overcall: this is a standard treatment, and is different from direct seat bidding.

 

So double followed by 2♦ cannot be the same hand.

 

I agree that this sequence shows a (slightly) stronger hand: Axx KQxx KQJxx x would be fewer hcp but a better hand, and I'd be comfortable with the sequence on that hand.

 

I'd rather slightly overbid, via double and correct, than make the perhaps technically correct bid of 2♦ because of the 4 card ♥ suit. While partner should probably bid 2♥ with the actual hand (I say probably because I cannot be objective, knowing the hands), he wouldn't/shouldn't with 3=4=1=5.

 

Besides, partner doesn't ALWAYS make the bid you dread :)

 

So the 'flexible' (the expert buzzword strikes again) double seems to be a good choice.

Agree with all Mike say, except that I play ELC here.

 

So easy double followed by 2♦ if parner bids 2♣.

 

Harder decision over 2♥ by partner, since I've got a little in reserve. Vulnerable I'd definitely raise to 3♥, NV it's closer between passing and raising. Guess I'd still raise.

 

Switching the minors, I'd balance with 2♣. The hand isn't good enough to double and bid 3♣ over 2♦.

[mikeh]

Mikeh, would your answer change if your minors were reversed? You see the problem, of course - partner may respond 2♦ to a double.

yes, it would: now I bid 2♣

[HeartA]

2♥ is an option, but I wouldn't blame him to pass.

Completely agree with Fluffy.

[1eyedjack]

I'd bid 2D as X then 2D for me is not ELC. I also could not imagine playing raptor after 1S p p, I mean surely you need a natural 1N in pass out seat.

Is there any particular reason why it is MORE important to have available a natural 1NT in the pass-out seat than in direct seat? I mean, I am not saying that it is UNimportant ... in fact I entirely agree with you. But then I also think a natural 1NT is important in direct seat, which is why I currently don't play Raptor in any position (happy to be convinced otherwise, mind).

[Guest Jlall]

I'd bid 2D as X then 2D for me is not ELC. I also could not imagine playing raptor after 1S p p, I mean surely you need a natural 1N in pass out seat.

Is there any particular reason why it is MORE important to have available a natural 1NT in the pass-out seat than in direct seat? I mean, I am not saying that it is UNimportant ... in fact I entirely agree with you. But then I also think a natural 1NT is important in direct seat, which is why I currently don't play Raptor in any position (happy to be convinced otherwise, mind).

Because you need to be bidding on the weak NT hand types in pass out seat whereas you can pass in balancing seat. You also need to be bidding on the strong NT hand types in pass out seat. So it becomes a little ridiculous when you have so many ranges to cover and you can't even bid a natural 1N. Not to mention that the frequency of having these hand types is a lot higher when your RHO is marked with very few HCP.