How to bid this hand?

[microcap]

For a change, Rex had nothing to do with this one.

 

What is an intelligent sequence for this hand? Include any gadgets or agreements that you might have with a regular partner.

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sahkq654d10876ca86&s=sq5ha103dakqj9cq54]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

7♦ is the optimal contract, but I don't know how to reach it. B)

[awm]

How about:

 

1♥ - 2♦

3♦ - 3♥(1)

3♠(2) - 4♦(3)

4♠(4) - 4NT(5)

5♦(6) - 5♠(7)

5NT(8) - 7♦(9)

 

(1) Provisionally agrees hearts; not a cuebid.

(2) Cuebid of 1st or 2nd round spade control.

(3) Extras (else nonserious 3NT), at least two of ♦AKQ, no club control.

(4) 1st+2nd round ♠ control and at least 2nd round ♣ control (w/o ♣ctrl no slam; bid 4♥).

(5) 1430 RKC in ♥

(6) Three keycards. Zero is not a real possibility on this auction.

(7) Queen ask.

(8) Shows the ♥Q, but denies club king or a top diamond honor (6♥ would deny ♥Q).

(9) To play.

[Halo]

1♥ (5-card suit)

 

3♦ (Game force/slam invitational, heart support or long solid diamond suit)

 

4NT (RKCB for diamonds)

 

5♣ (0 or 3)

 

5♦ (relay to show queen of diamonds or pass)

 

... whatever

 

7♦

 

We could do it in the old days.

[mikeh]

1♥       2♦ (1)

3♦(2)   3♥ (3)

3♠     3N(4)

4♣     4N

5♣     5♦(5)

6♥(6)  7♦ (7)

 

 

1: natural, game force

2: extra values, either shape or hcp, always 4+ support

3: natural, not just a preference

4: slamming, denies a ♣ control, asks opener to cue ♣s if possible

5: any queens? (2-suit rkcb)

6: ♥Q, no side King. no ♦Q

7: conclusion

 

I like this use of 3N: it doesn't distinguish between mild and strong slam interest, but I find that we can usually sort that out anyway, and in the meantime, this use allows the 3N bidder to identify a potential issue in a difficult-to-bypass suit.

[Fluffy]

I like both adam and mike's biddings, I don't play serious nor not serious and I wonder if I would reach the rigth spot.

[whereagles]

I wouldn't reach it playing my pet system with myself.

 

Easier if South opens a strong club in relay precision :)

[kenrexford]

Some good auctions so far, especially the one with non-serious 3NT.

 

Using Serious 3NT and my approach:

 

1♥-2♦

3♦-3♥

3♠ (spade control -- A/K/st/vo)-3NT(Serious)

4♣(club control -- A/K/st/vo)-4♦(two top diamonds)

4♠(first round control, plus second-round control -- you ask)-4NT(1430)

5♦(three)-5♥(Queen ask)

5NT(queen, no unmentioned Kings)-7♦

 

or, same essential thing if for some reason 5♠ is the queen-ask.

 

As an aside, Responder has an interesting problem if he wants to maintain diamond focus. Change Responder's hand to ♠Qxx ♥Ax ♦AKQJx ♣Qxx. The diamond slam makes, but 3♥ is not available as a cue. This is unfortunate and a serious problem. The best course appears to be 4♦. Opener should now find this very interesting, as Responder lacks control in both black suits and yet is slammish. Even AKQJx in diamonds is not enough, it seems. So, Opener should visualize the heart Ace and probable solid trumps. 4♥ seems to be in focus, so Opener would use 4♠ as RKCB just to make sure. After the 5♥ response, Opener places 6♦.

[skjaeran]

1♥       2♦ (1)

3♦(2)   3♥ (3)

3♠     3N(4)

4♣     4N

5♣     5♦(5)

6♥(6)  7♦ (7)

 

 

1: natural, game force

2: extra values, either shape or hcp, always 4+ support

3: natural, not just a preference

4: slamming, denies a ♣ control, asks opener to cue ♣s if possible

5: any queens? (2-suit rkcb)

6: ♥Q, no side King. no ♦Q

7: conclusion

 

I like this use of 3N: it doesn't distinguish between mild and strong slam interest, but I find that we can usually sort that out anyway, and in the meantime, this use allows the 3N bidder to identify a potential issue in a difficult-to-bypass suit.

I'd bid like Mike up to and including 4♣.

3NT wld be serious in my methods.

After 4♣ I'd continue:

4♦ - 4♠

4NT - 5♦

5♥ - 6♥

7♦

 

Overlooked Ken's posting - identical bidding - 6♥ had same meaning as his 5NT.

[inquiry]

I would reproduce (if I was thinking clearly) mikeh's auction.

[cherdano]

I may be missing something, but wouldn't Mike's auction go the same way if North had Ax Ax in the black suits? I don't think this grand is biddable on these RKCB-auctions unless North is allowed to show his spade "king" (2nd round control) in reply to the queen ask, or South gives North room to show the 2nd round ♠ control earlier (as in Adam's and Ken's auctions).

[Halo]

I may be missing something, but wouldn't Mike's auction go the same way if North had Ax Ax in the black suits? I don't think this grand is biddable on these RKCB-auctions unless North is allowed to show his spade "king" (2nd round control) in reply to the queen ask, or South gives North room to show the 2nd round ♠ control earlier (as in Adam's and Ken's auctions).

You may not have noticed that in my old fashioned auction North bid RKCB, and he knew he had a singleton spade ace.

 

I did look on with interest at the scientific autions where this minor point is missing.

[mikeh]

I may be missing something, but wouldn't Mike's auction go the same way if North had Ax Ax in the black suits? I don't think this grand is biddable on these RKCB-auctions unless North is allowed to show his spade "king" (2nd round control) in reply to the queen ask, or South gives North room to show the 2nd round ♠ control earlier (as in Adam's and Ken's auctions).

you are absolutely correct B)

 

I was not saying I would actually bid 7♦, but was trying, instead, to come up with an auction that might result in bidding it. From S's p.o.v, the final bid depends on finding partner with a 6th ♥, or a black stiff (5431) or, worst case, a useful black card. A Jack will make it 50% and there are other, lesser, possibilities.

 

I should have pointed this out :) Thanks!

 

I would guess that, from S's p.ov. bidding 7 at the end would be slightly bettter than a 50/50 proposition... which makes it a poor grand.

 

I deliberately did not set out a relay method: I haven't relayed for several years now, but I have used, and still have the notes for, a method in which S would respond 2♣ and, in sequence, discover:

 

1)5+♥, 4+♦s

 

2) 1=5=4=3

 

3) 5 controls (A=2, K=1)

 

4) ♥Q, no ♦Q

 

5) ♣A or K or both, ♥A or K (not both) no ♦A or K

 

6) Only 1 top ♣ (ie not AK), no ♥J

 

By this time, responder knows that opener has A KQxxx (where it cannot be more than KQ1098) xxxx Axx where the ♣ are no better than AJx

 

So he can place the contract in 7♦ if playing against a good team or in a short match and in 6♥ (or 6♦) otherwise. I would not want to be in 7♦ against a team I expected to beat comfortably in a long match. If vulnerable, I'd much rather spot them 13 imps for reaching the grand than 17 when we reach it and ♥s are 4-1. After all, it is amazing how often even reasonably competent pairs miss small slam on hands where grand is cold. But against a good team or in a short match, the odds seem to me to favour bidding the maximum.

 

I wouldn't be able, at the table and in any of my current partnerships, to be able to bid naturally to a known-to-be-good grand here.

[000002]

:)

 

 

why not jump 4♠ after 3♥ recurrence?

 

 

 

:)

 

 

 

 

regards 000002

[jdonn]

I may be missing something, but wouldn't Mike's auction go the same way if North had Ax Ax in the black suits? I don't think this grand is biddable on these RKCB-auctions unless North is allowed to show his spade "king" (2nd round control) in reply to the queen ask, or South gives North room to show the 2nd round ♠ control earlier (as in Adam's and Ken's auctions).

I was going to make the same point earlier but then I saw Mike said 3♦ shows extra values in either shape or hcp, which to me meant it can't be 2542 minimum. If that were the agreement then his auction seems good. But Mike already replied to your message and didn't mention anything about that, so who knows.