Rossoneri Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 [hv=s=saq9hakq98d84ct73]133|100|Scoring: IMP1NT opening can have a 5 card major.[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1NT for me. I can see the hand is not 'notrumpy' but that whole concept is overrated to me. I am more concerned with the fact that I have absolutely no sensible way to bid my hand almost regardless of what partner does if I open 1♥. What do I bid over 1♠?What do I bid over non forcing 1NT? (I am really inbetween passing and not)What do I bid over 1♥ 1NT(f1) 2♣ 2♥? Pass and partner has Kxx Tx AJxx xxxx?Heck what do I bid after 1♥ 2♥, where we could so easily either have game or be down in 3? When partner raising is not even good news, sign me up for 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'd open 1NT. But if I did open 1H, then I'd rebid 2S over partner's 1S, and 2C over partner's 1NT, and guess the right bid after any of those other nasty auctions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'd open 1NT. If the strong 3-card suit was a minor instead of spades then I would open 1♥, intending to rebid that minor. But with spades that is not an option, so I vote for 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 If I have an agreement that a 1NT opening can so a 5 card major then I open 1NT with the right range and a 5 card major. I understand that having two wide open suits is less than desirable. However, its going to be incredibly difficult to show this hand if my rebids after 1♥ deny 3=5=2=3 with 15-17 HCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1H, matter of style. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'd open 1NT. But if I did open 1H, then I'd rebid 2S over partner's 1S, and 2C over partner's 1NT, and guess the right bid after any of those other nasty auctionsNot "guess the right bid". More like "guess what to bid". After all, if there was a 'right bid' then it wouldn't be a problem :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1NT. This hand screams REBID PROBLEM! as Josh correctly pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1 ♥ .2 suits wide open .Seems risky to open 1NT.After 1 Nt or 2♥ I wud pass .Most of my Partners are denying 10 points.Over 1♠ my rebid would be 2♠.I doubt if we would miss any reasonable game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'd open 1NT. But if I did open 1H, then I'd rebid 2S over partner's 1S, and 2C over partner's 1NT, and guess the right bid after any of those other nasty auctionsNot "guess the right bid". More like "guess what to bid". After all, if there was a 'right bid' then it wouldn't be a problem :) In practice, right bid means winning bid Josh! That's why you end up winning bidding polls and I end up winning.... uhm, nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 agree with jdonn. glad im playing a 5CM NT.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmunte1 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1NT - this is one bid hand, no good second call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1NT, wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 1H, wtp? Barely an opening hand, what rebid problem. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 The poll should include "pass" for mike777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 "The poll should include "pass" for mike777." In real life he never passes 11 counts :) RS is just one of Mike's frequent acid flashbacks :P Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'm going to buck the trend and open 1♥. I'm presuming my style is that I have agreed with partner that I'm allowed to open 1♥ or 1NT with this shape and these values. What do I bid over 1♠?2♠ - Certainly not ideal, but can't I presume we have a reasonable structure over this where partner can bid 2NT and I can show max and 3 card support? What do I bid over non forcing 1NT? (I am really inbetween passing and not)Pass - Presumably if I opened 1NT, partner would pass that. I see no great advantage in being declarer. What do I bid over 1♥ 1NT(f1) 2♣ 2♥? Pass and partner has Kxx Tx AJxx xxxx? Pass - This is the only troubling auction. However, the example hand you gave is likely to pass your 1N opening. However, I'm sure we can create some 9 counts that would invite game opposite 1N and would bid this way over 1♥. By the way are you accepting an invite if the auction goes 1N - 2N? Certainly not saying the 1♥ opening is without risk. Heck what do I bid after 1♥ 2♥, where we could so easily either have game or be down in 3? This depends entirely on my style of 2♥ bids. Presuming 2♥ is a "constructive" raise, then I will make a try. Obviously a Kokish game try if that is in my arsenal, otherwise I'll make a natural game try of 2♠. Now, let me give the 1NT bidders some questions. When it goes 1NT - (3♦) - are you making a reopening double? How do you feel about the auction? If it goes 1NT - (Dbl) - P - (P) - ? are you pulling? When it goes 1NT - 3NT and partner turns up with Kxxx JTx xxx AKx and they rattle off the first 5 diamond tricks, how will you feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted March 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Would it make a difference to any of you if you had a forcing NT response at your partner's disposal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 I think if you play very sound opening bids and partner bids 1nt forcing you just rebid 2H. I think if you play junky openings with a semi-force nt response you just rebid 2clubs. Pass is not an option. Yes 2clubs is quite wide ranging here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 What do I bid over 1♠?2♠ - Certainly not ideal, but can't I presume we have a reasonable structure over this where partner can bid 2NT and I can show max and 3 card support?That structure doesn't do you much good since you clearly have more than a max, particularly for 3NT on hands where partner will pass with 4 spades.What do I bid over non forcing 1NT? (I am really inbetween passing and not)Pass - Presumably if I opened 1NT, partner would pass that. I see no great advantage in being declarer.Isn't 1NT 6-9? Partner will bid over 1NT 100% of the time with 9, and depending who they are anywhere from a little to most of the time with 8.What do I bid over 1♥ 1NT(f1) 2♣ 2♥? Pass and partner has Kxx Tx AJxx xxxx?Pass - This is the only troubling auction. However, the example hand you gave is likely to pass your 1N opening. However, I'm sure we can create some 9 counts that would invite game opposite 1N and would bid this way over 1♥. By the way are you accepting an invite if the auction goes 1N - 2N? Certainly not saying the 1♥ opening is without risk.Only troubling auction...other than the one forcing you to make a bid that is "certainly not ideal"?Pass my 1NT opener? You are kidding right? Not if you are my partner please.Of course accept an invitation. Now, let me give the 1NT bidders some questions. When it goes 1NT - (3♦) - are you making a reopening double? How do you feel about the auction?I double and am not unhappy at all. I hope you weren't suggesting this auction is anywhere near as likely as the ones I gave.If it goes 1NT - (Dbl) - P - (P) - ? are you pulling?Repeat last answer, changing the word "double" to "pull".When it goes 1NT - 3NT and partner turns up with Kxxx JTx xxx AKx and they rattle off the first 5 diamond tricks, how will you feel?Pretty lousy :) Isn't it the same thing that would have happened if I had opened 1NT with AQx KQxxx Qx QJx? Any time you do it with a 5 card major, there is some chance you will go down in 3NT with 4M making, but it works both ways and time has shown in the long run 1NT will pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Actually probably the biggest concern for the 1N openers (and please feel free to disagree) is to play there when hearts is a better contract. E.g. opposite Jxxx Jxxx Qxx xx Although the upside of this is that it's harder for opponents to overcall 2m since most NT defensive systems are focused around the majors. To me the hand feels like a suit oriented hand and I also want a heart lead if we happen to be defending. The other example hand with more scattered values makes me much more comfortable opening 1NT. but it works both ways and time has shown in the long run 1NT will pay off. I agree that allowing 5cM in 1NT has been useful. I imagine this poll is questioning whether one will change that style if the hand is suit oriented enough. Let me give you a different example. AKQxx xx xxx AKx Are you still opening 1NT? What about xx AKQxx xxx AKx where you have a rebid problem opening 1♥, but you also may worry about partner transferring you to spades if you open 1NT? These are of course awkward hands. Let me ask a different question. Suppose you didn't have to worry about the rebid problem since you were playing, e.g. a relay system. And you were allowed a choice of which to open (i.e. your system allowed a 5M332 shape to either open 1M or 1NT), which would you prefer to open then? N.B. When I say "you", I do not mean Josh in particular, I mean anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 When it goes 1NT - 3NT and partner turns up with Kxxx JTx xxx AKx and they rattle off the first 5 diamond tricks, how will you feel?Why cant they rattle off 5 tricksin ♣?The issue here is not "whether to open 1NT with 15-17 and 5 card major".The issue is "whether to open 1NT with 15-17 and 5 card major AND 2 wide open suits."While most if not all, would open 1NT with 15-17 and 5 card major and 1 open suit some of us think its too risky with no compensating gain.Over 1♥ if responder bids forcing NT,opener bids his 3 card minor and bids 3 NT if P invites.Dont see which game we might miss by opening 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Although I always open 1NT when I have a balanced hand with a 5-card major (and the appropriate strength of course), I am not nearly as confident as Josh is. Is it really true that time has proved that opening 1NT on EVERY balanced hand with a 5-card major is a winner in the long run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted March 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 At the actual table, I opened 1NT, immediately overcalled by 3D, then partner bids 4S. We agreed fit showing jumps in competition after suit openings. Here, I have no idea what it meant. (And I forgot to add, we agreed 2/1 GF) Partner said I should have opened 1H, which I am not entirely in agreement with. My only argument is, with the great 5 card heart suit and AQx in spades, would it be better in a general situation if I opened 1H instead of 1NT? (as opposed to say if my other values were in the minors) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Never ending debate. I have settled on do not open 1nt with 2 flaws1) one 5 card major.2) small xx in side suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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