han Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Here is part one of a 2-part question: [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sk10xxhk10xxxdxcxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP2C-(p)-2D-(3C)3S-(4C)-??[/hv] You are playing with jdonn, 2D showed some values (2H would be negative) but you have no further agreements. What is your next call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 5♠. The odds are very high that he has a stiff or void (or A) of ♣s, but there seems to be little risk in asking. I suspect that the second part may have to do with what we bid over 6♣ by him. I have my idea on that, but I'll wait to see if that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Almost mikeh, I might as well give it now as I doubt many are going to disagree with your 5♠. Partner bids 6♥ next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 is 2♦ limited?, if limited to 8 then 5♠+7♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 2D is unlimited, it only denies a complete bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi, 5S. I have to make a move, fit and shortage, i.e. 4S is not enough.- 4H is probably to play (?!)- 5C shows a club control- 5D shows fit and shortage, but most likely should be a void- 5H similar to 5D- 5S is, what is left With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Actually, 5♠ is a pretty good bid. I might not make it opposite myself, but I surely would opposite someone who's conservative with his 2♣ openings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 6♥: that is a VERY interesting call. We can draw some useful inferences. In my view, he must hold both red Aces and first round ♣ control. Without 1st round ♣ control, he'd bid 6♠ with a stiff, or the highly improbable Kx (no, I don't think he should bid 5N at imps to 'protect' the Kx) With no control, he'd pass 5♠. Therefore he holds 1st round ♣ control. If he held that and only one red suit control, he should bid 6♣ and allow me to cue my Ace if I hold it... which gets me back to my idea over 6♣... I was going to bid 6♠. So he has both red Aces. I think he has something like AQJxxx Ax AKQx A or AQJxxx AQx AKQx void (I like this second hand more than the 1st). I don't believe that he should have a ♥ holding of Axx... it is too much to expect us to tell whether our actual ♥ holding is adequate or whether we need KQxxx... plus he may infer that we are unlikely to hold KQxxx after our non-♥ positive response. I will conceal a good suit, to bid 2♦, but only with a complex hand: simple hands are shown simply. So I, for one, am unlikely to hold KQxxx.... some would have absolutely denied it by now. So I bid 7♠: I cannot construct a hand on which 7♥ is better.... if LHO can ruff a ♥, well, if we found partner with AQJxxx AQJx AKx void, maybe he'd ruff a ♠ if we played ♥s. In the meantime, bidding 7♥, while not likely to lead to disaster, adds a layer of ambiguity for no good purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 5♦ splinter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 6♥ over 5♠, huh? Well, that must be grand slam territory and I do have fitting hearts and a useful singleton. 7♠ it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 5♠ is fine, but I might have just tried 4N, since I trust my opponents. 6♥? Well this absolutely shows 1st round control of clubs. What I'm concerned about is the diamond suit, however, since 6♦ was bypassed. AQJxxx, AQxx, KQx, A, seems possible but this is a VERY specific hand, but thats the conclusion I'll draw. So I'll try 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 unlimited? I might not even buy 5♠ then :), stop before its too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I would have just bid RKC. I suspect that for every time partner has xx of clubs (I suspect almost never) then you will misjudge 6 versus 7 at least once as a result. It's pretty hard to argue that 5♠ isn't the best bid, so I won't go there. I would guess to bid 7♠ over 6♥. Hopefully partner wouldn't have bid this way without the ♦A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I have given this more thought, after reading Phil's post. I think that there are several approaches, of which I think the following two are best (bearing in mind that we are speaking of making this up at the table and expecting partner to work out our meaning) 1. 6♣: shows the ♣ control and denies a ♦ control. We will play 6♠ unless partner bids 6♦, over which I can, if I choose, cue 6♥ as another try 6♦: shows the ♣ and the ♦ control and denies a ♥ control 6♥: shows all 3 side controls and asks for generic red suit help: do you have ANYTHING extra, knowing that any red suit K will be enough. On this hand, opener will have something like AQJxxx AQx AKQx void but (if we held Kxxx x Kxxxx xxx) he might bid exactly this way with AQJxxx AKQx AQx void or 2. 6♣ shows the ♣ control and denies control of one or both of the ♦ suit or the ♥ suit, and expects responder to cue his red ace if he holds one (or to jump to 7♠ if by some miracle he holds both) 6♦ shows all side suits and asks specifically for help in ♦s 6♥ shows all side suits and asks specifically for help in ♥s I think the second makes more sense, and it is the one I would deduce. However, I can see the logic behind the first approach. I should add that I do not accept Phil's construction of AQJxxx AQxx KQx A because it is unreasonable for opener to assume that we need all of the trump K, the ♥K and the ♦A to bid grand. He will expect us to bid 7, if 6♥ denies the ♦A, on Kxxx xx Axxxx xx, as an example.... wouldn't we argue (if we accept the logic that 6♥ denies the ♦A) that he has made a brilliant bid on AQJxxx AKQx KQx void? No, opener will hope we have two working cards, plus trump length... he will not expect us to know that 2 keys are not enough. Edit: BTW, regardless of whether I am correct in my thinking, I want to say that I like the fact that jdonn bid this way... it shows confidence in both his own thinking and in partner's. Whatever it meant, I like the attitude displayed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I also disagree with phil's construction. If all partner wanted to hear was the ♦A, then I think he should bid 6♣ to find out. I will bid 7♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 7S Partner says he needs help in hearts for seven spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000002 Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 The hand is good enough to take it as 9counts up. if it's a forcing pass stay there,other bidding is weakish except few special. pass 4♣ then------ pull pard's DBL/opps 5♣/pard's 4♦........ regards 000002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 5S already bid my hand. I now bbid 6S over 6H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 5S already bid my hand. I now bbid 6S over 6H. Partner also heard 5♠ and is *still* trying for grand. I don't understand this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 5S already bid my hand. I now bbid 6S over 6H. Partner also heard 5♠ and is *still* trying for grand. I don't understand this argument. Because I don't have extra for my 5S: no first control in any suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 You don't have, but pard has ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I thought about this hand and I wondered if the following construction was possible: QJTxxxAQxAKQA Tough to know how this hand is supposed to bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I thought about this hand and I wondered if the following construction was possible: QJTxxxAQxAKQA Tough to know how this hand is supposed to bid.good point My suggestion is that this hand should bid 6♣ It requires partner to hold AK(x)(x) of trump and the ♥K in order for grand to be on, and no responder would miss grand with that hand after 6♣.... I think :P Alternatively, this hand could pass 3♣, but I doubt that I could bring myself to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 This ain't exact science. QJTxxxAQxAKQA should be happy with 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 if you only miss trumps you hae an easy 5NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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