pass or pull?

[gwnn]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sxxhxxxdkxxxcxxxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♣*-(1♠)-p**-(2♠);

4♥-(4♠)-p-(p);

X-(p)-?

 

*=strong

**=weak (not necessarily double negative)

[Fluffy]

5♥ could be an option before, now I'll bid them as well.

[whereagles]

Pass. Would bid 5♥ with

 

x

xxxx

Kxxx

xxxx

 

instead.

[skjaeran]

5♥. With 3-card support and a side king I'd never think of passing.

[Edmunte1]

5♥ - 2 possible offensive tricks

[gwnn]

OK, so now comes the funny part of the story.

 

AKx

AKQTxxx

Qx

K

 

was my partner's hand.

 

After RHO bid 4♠ instantly, I thought for a while (no screen) - should I pass or should I bid 5♥? After about 5 seconds or so, I decided that pass is far better - pd doesn't need to have exactly 10 tricks for his bid (albeit he'll be very close, being vulnerable and all). Exactly after pd doubled, opps asked for the TD. They told him the facts and he told us "fair enough. carry on please". After he left, RHO passed and I bid 5♥. We played the board, making plus one because the club king held a trick. This proved to be an absolute top, everyone scoring +650. 4♠X would have given us an absolute zero (at least from the score sheet).

 

The dialog between the TD and opps:

TD: Even though North had an UI, pass is certainly NOT a logical alternative. Score stands.

opps: aha. That's fair enough. But South certainly wouldn't have pulled his double. He only pulled his partner's double because he knew that you would have adjusted the result from 500 to 150. As 4♠ down a few times undoubled would have certainly meant a close-zero, he gambled on 5♥ making. The only fair thing on your behalf would be to adjust the result to -500.

TD: ???

 

Result stood.

 

ps: I really think 5♥ is the normal call. Partner promised to have a great hand. I've really got a very nice hand in context so it struck me as an automatic call. It seems only 50% of voters agree with this (or even fewer)...

[helene_t]

5 seconds is not a BIT. Besides, allthough it's not a "skip bid" situation, you're entitled to some times to think in this situation, in particular because your RHO made an "instantaneous" call in a situation where a slight delay would have been normal.

 

The question is if you partner had a logical alternative to double, which I agree with the TD that he hadn't.

 

EW's point is somewhat similar to the discussion Ben started about inference from the fact that partner bid under ethical pressure. In this case it's very far-fetched though.

 

Just my personal opinion, I could have put some "IMHO"s here and there.

[gwnn]

Well, opps stated "at least 10 seconds". My p said somewhere between 5 and 10. Eventually opps agreed with him.

 

This is not to say I measured and the time was certainly smaller than 5 seconds, but I thought it was certainly not very much.

 

And RHO's (4♠) was instant in that it came at the exact moment my p lifted the stop card. Now, it's probably cause I'm inexperienced but I didn't expect RHO's bid. I was taken out of my rythm but I passed rather smoothly.

[Codo]

1. you should think about what to bid after they rebid their suit before the opponent bid.

 

2. You gave your pd the UI with your delay. But pass was no valid option for him.

Maybe you can judge, that a direct 5 Heart bid from him is an option. And if you had passed 4 Spade X for a good score, I would change the score to 5 Heart making, because it is possible that his double was influenced by the delay.

But this is not the case here. You bid 5 Heart, no damage, score stands.

 

3. The noise from your opps after the TD Descission is nonsense. Pds pass of 4 Spade is simply no option. No gambling anywhere.

[bid_em_up]

I'm sorry. Anyone who complains about a 5-10 second BIT needs to take up golf, or bowling or any other sport.

 

BIT's were meant for the 30-45 second, 1 minute, 2 minute tanks that frequently occur. Anybody who wants to complain about somebody taking 10 seconds (i.e. skip bid please wait...where the NORMAL wait is supposed to be 10 seconds) to decide on a call, can kiss my.......and I will be happy to tell them that.

 

(Hopefully, that doesn't violate Zero Tolerance!!) :)

[pclayton]

I'm sorry. Anyone who complains about a 5-10 second BIT needs to take up golf, or bowling or any other sport.

 

BIT's were meant for the 30-45 second, 1 minute, 2 minute tanks that frequently occur. Anybody who wants to complain about somebody taking 10 seconds (i.e. skip bid please wait...where the NORMAL wait is supposed to be 10 seconds) to decide on a call, can kiss my.......and I will be happy to tell them that.

 

(Hopefully, that doesn't violate Zero Tolerance!!) :)

No. BIT's are contextual.

 

A routine pass in an auction we aren't in takes 1-2 seconds. Even a 5 second pause can be a break in tempo, in an auction like 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N - 3N - (....pass). A 10 second pause is a lifetime in an auction like this. Count it out for yourself.

 

On the other hand, in a high level competitive auction, 20-30 second breaks are common. If anything, making a call in a that takes 5 seconds might be considered 'fast', although I wouldn't say 10 seconds would be considered fast under any circumstances, but I am a fast player by nature, especially when it comes to the bidding.

[bid_em_up]

I'm sorry.  Anyone who complains about a 5-10 second BIT needs to take up golf, or bowling or any other sport.

 

BIT's were meant for the 30-45 second, 1 minute, 2 minute tanks that frequently occur.  Anybody who wants to complain about somebody taking 10 seconds (i.e. skip bid please wait...where the NORMAL wait is supposed to be 10 seconds) to decide on a call, can kiss my.......and I will be happy to tell them that. 

 

(Hopefully, that doesn't violate Zero Tolerance!!)  :)

No. BIT's are contextual.

 

A routine pass in an auction we aren't in takes 1-2 seconds. Even a 5 second pause can be a break in tempo, in an auction like 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N - 3N - (....pass). A 10 second pause is a lifetime in an auction like this. Count it out for yourself.

 

On the other hand, in a high level competitive auction, 20-30 second breaks are common. If anything, making a call in a that takes 5 seconds might be considered 'fast', although I wouldn't say 10 seconds would be considered fast under any circumstances, but I am a fast player by nature, especially when it comes to the bidding.

Huh? Not sure what you are attempting to say Phil, can I take 10 seconds to think about it? :)

 

My point was, there is a big difference in waiting 30-45 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, wriggling, squirming, whatever, than a "normal" 5-10 seconds in an auction such as this. You should be expected to take 5-10 seconds to consider your bid in this sequence, and attempting to claim it is a "break in tempo" is carrying things to the extreme. Calling the director for a normal and expected BIT is ridiculous.

[pclayton]

Bid-em: I was responding to your quote:

 

I'm sorry. Anyone who complains about a 5-10 second BIT needs to take up golf, or bowling or any other sport.

 

In the subject auction, I don't believe that a 5 second pause is unusual, but 10 seconds is pushing it. Its likely the strong club opener has bid his hand with 4♥ and has nothing left. If the strong club opener has a real monster, he has a problem, and this problem is conveyed with a tank. Personally, I don't think there's any problem over 4♠ - I think its a clear double.