Decisions, decisions

[Ant590]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=shakq5daqj642cj65]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥ - pass - ?[/hv]

• Your agreements are listed in the poll, which do you choose? and why*?
  
• Would you play 4♠ as a void-splinter, voidwood or something else?
  

Cheers in advance,

Ant.

 

*I'm a beginner and this is not just about proving someone right-wrong, I want to know what i should be thinking here :rolleyes:

[pclayton]

There are some auction where you want to take control of, and some where you want to help pard.

 

Are you playing 2/1? If so, then 2♦ is fairly obvious. When you next support pard in hearts, you will start a cue bidding auction and find out if pard has a club control. Then, and only then, should you ask for aces via exclusion key card. As an alternative, you can just cue bid and find out if pard has the ♦K.

 

If a 3♦ fit jump is available, that probably works OK too, but the auction gets a little cramped, especially if pard re-preempts with 4♥.

 

For me, a direct 4♠ wouldn't be a void splinter or exclusion; it would show a string of spades; AQJ-8th and out or the like.

[inquiry]

If you play Strong Jumpshifts that are either one suiters or two suiters with support, then 3♦ would be ok. I would not bid 3♦ as a fit jump even if that bid was available, as this hand is much too strong for that treatment imho.

 

The only bid I would consider at the table is 2♦

[hrothgar]

From my perspective, there are a few different things that you need to be thinking about.

 

The first is probably the most important: Partner rates to have abolutely dreadful trump. He is probably sitting on Jxxxx. You're going to have to drag him - kicking and screaming - towards slam. Lets assume that you start with a splinter: Partner is very likely to have Spade values. Unless partner has some freak with all his values in the minors, all that your splinter is going to do is convince partner to sign off in Hearts.

 

The second point is that the critical feature of this hand is that you hold xxx in Clubs. The single most important thing that you need to do is to find some way to avoid two club losers off the top. If you can do this, you win. if not, you lose.

 

I think that your best course of action is to go slow and show partner a source of tricks. (In this case Diamonds). Hopefully, a controlled auction will permit you to identify whether partner has a first / second round clubs control. This would be my choice at the table.

 

The only other bid that has any remote appeal is to punt an immediate 6♥

[jillybean]

At the table I would definately slpinter 3♠ here. I expect to hear a ♣ cue bid so finding K♦ is going to be difficult.

2♦ may be a better bid but I'm not sure if it makes it any easier to find K♦, I dont play 2/1.

1♥:2♦ 2♥:3♥ ?

 

jb

[whereagles]

I would go the slow way and bid 2♦. We need to know if pard can help us in the minor suits and for that we can't squander bidding space.

[inquiry]

At the table I would definately slpinter 3♠ here. I expect to hear a ♣ cue bid so finding K♦ is going to be difficult.

2♦ may be a better bid but I'm not sure if it makes it any easier to find K♦, I dont play 2/1.

1♥:2♦ 2♥:3♥ ?

 

jb

Sometimes it hurts to agree with Richard, but Jilly if you splinter, your partner is not going to make a positive move with a really aweful hearts and most likely at least four and probably more hcp in spades (I guess he could have xxx Jxxxx Kx AKQ, but more likey he has spade honors).

 

The second tproblem with the splinter is your hand is too good, MUCH MUCH too good for a splinter. As opener, you can splinter with monsters in support of parrtners initial response, but as responder, you will get better results if you save splinters for more limited values. Just enough to force to game COUNTING THE SHORT SUIT values. Here you have enough to force to game even ignoring the short suit values, thus it is too strong.

[Robert]

Hi jillybeans2

 

If you are not playing 2/1 methods, your auction of 1H-2D-2H-3H is 'not forcing.'

You need to force to game with this strong responding hand.

 

Regards,

Robert

[hotShot]

Playing my favorite methods, I have an easy Jacoby 2NT, with this hand showing support and forcing.

If I don't want to use that, i can splinter 3♠, because my methods "force" partner to show any first round controls he can bid below 4♥ or make the next higher bid (here 3NT) with the following answers:

1. step: (here 4♣) suit is void (forces partner to bid 4♦ as sort of voidwood with ♠ void)

2. step: (here 4♦) single ♠ 3/0 of 5

3. step: (here 4♥) single ♠ 4/1 of 5

4. step: (here 4♠) single ♠ 2 of 5 without trump Q

5. step: (here 4NT) single ♠ 2 of 5 with trump Q

This way even with a weak partner slam can be explored with 5♥ or 4/5NT as rescue bids.

 

With your methods, I have to bid 2♦ first.

[Apollo81]

I would bid 2NT to hear if partner has a minor suit singleton. This will also (eventually) let us find out if partner has clubs controlled.

 

If this were MPs I would be really, really temped to psych exclusion-clubs on this hand.

[skjaeran]

Hi jillybeans2

 

If you are not playing 2/1 methods, your auction of 1H-2D-2H-3H is 'not forcing.'

You need to force to game with this strong responding hand.

 

Regards,

Robert

That might be true in Acol or SAYC.

But not generally. That sequence has been forcing in my methods since long before playing 2/1.

[inquiry]

I can not imagine using JAcoby 2NT here. How do you continue after...

 

1H - 2NT

4H

 

The five level might not be safe if partner has something like

AKQ Jxxxx Kx xxx, and there is no safe way to seperate the hand types.

 

If your 2NT bid does not allow a jump to 4♥ there might be a case for it, but a slow simple auction to show diamonds, then heart support to start cue-bidding seems straight forward to my simple minded way of bidding.

[Codo]

I think 3 Diamond as a fit jump is clearly the best way to show this hand.

After two diamond pd will quite often simply rebid his Hearts to show min. and you better know whether 3 !H than is inviting or slam interest... or what else you can do to show him your enormous Heart support and your spade control.

 

After 3 Diamonds pd may cooperate with a cuebid and you know very quickly whether you belong in slam or not.

And if he just returns back to Hearts to shom minimum, you can simply cuebid 3 Spade to show him the club problem.

[the hog]

Two possible bids:

 

2D intending to support H and then elicit cues, depending on how the auction goes.

(My choice).

 

6H - there is something to be said for Richard's suggestion, but it does give up on the grand and you may get to a 6 off a C control. (Might still make though.)

 

No splinters and no Jacoby 2NT!

3D fit showing is nice IF we play that - most don't.

[han]

I think I'd bid 2D, but 2NT (if you play a decent structure) is not so crazy imo. I'm afraid that it will go 1H-2D-2H-3H-4H, where 2H is a catch-all, and 4H denies a slam suitable hand. Then I still won't know what to do.

[HeartA]

The problem with 3S is, pd would not dare to cue-bid 4C, looking at his poor hearts holding and S wastes, even if he has CA.

 

The problem with 2D is, it would be hard to convince him of the solid heart support and void spades later.

 

The problem with 2NT is, you would probably hear 3D if he has a stiff. When that happens, it would be very difficult to convince him of void spades and all you want is club control.

 

I would choose between 3D and 6H. The problem with 3D is that, you may need diamond finesse to make slam, and club lead would distroy your chance when the finesse loses. So I prefer a shoot at 6H. It may miss a cold grand (hard to find out anyway), but increase your chance to make.

[SoTired]

If partner always q-bids over a splinter, how do you tell when you don't have slam? This is not a splinter hand, because we really don't care if opener has wasted spade strength.

 

This hand is actually very simple: If opener has a club control, we want to be in 6H or 7H. If opener has ♣A and ♦K, then 7H is cold. If opener does not have a club control, then stop below slam.

 

The 2D response followed by 3H is probably the best way to solicit a club q-bid from opener. Then bid ERKC for the grand/baby decision.

 

You could also bid J2N. This sets trump so both partners are on the same wavelength. With many partners, I play the 3M rebid shows the "none-of-the-above" hand. Even if opener bids 4H over 2N, you can still bid ERKC and find out about the AC and KD. Personally, if I could not determine whether opener had a club control, I would bid 6H anyway. Maybe they won't lead a club.

[mike777]

geez you guys do not play a forcing major slam invite? come on!

[P_Marlowe]

3D, should comes closest to what I have,

and dont tell me partner can pass.

 

I still have the chance to bid 4S over 3H / 4H

to show a first round control in spades.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS (Added Remark):

Since one has the option to show the heart support

delayed, 3D direct should show 5-4.

[hotShot]

If partner always q-bids over a splinter, how do you tell when you don't have slam? This is not a splinter hand, because we really don't care if opener has wasted spade strength.

@SoTired

In my system a splinter (here 3♠) here is forcing to game (here 4♥), if partner does not have a q-bid (or mixed q-bid) below that, slam won't be an option. This is why splinter is an option in this hand, because I want to know the ♣ control.

Otherwise I would go over 2NT. My answering structure over 2NT uses all bids below 3M as showing single or void and 3M as weakest catch all.

[SoTired]

That was an aside about splinters. Say partner opens 1H and you hold

x KQxx xxxx AKxx. This is a perfect splinter of 3S. It should find the slam when opener holds 1) xxx AJxxx AKx Qx and avoid the slam when opener holds 2) KQx AJxxx Axx xx. In my system, opener would q-bid 4D with #1 and sign-off in 4H with #2 because of the wasted spade strength. But in your system, opener would q-bid 4D with both hands. So how does responder tell whether opener has fatally wasted spade strength?

 

Therefore, most experts would NOT q-bid after a splinter when the splinter signals wasted strength opposite shortness. That is also why you don't want to splinter with too much excess strength because partner may just sign-off when you need a q-bid regardless of wasted strength.

 

The purpose of a splinter is to find slam on game-strength hands by quickly identifying a super fitting hand because there is shortness opposite weakness.

[dake50]

Do you not have C-ask, then D-ask?

You'll know 4H/6H/7H after those 2 asks. hope for 5H + 6D + 1CA + 1Sruff.

[1eyedjack]

The second tproblem with the splinter is your hand is too good, MUCH MUCH too good for a splinter. As opener, you can splinter with monsters in support of parrtners initial response, but as responder, you will get better results if you save splinters for more limited values. Just enough to force to game COUNTING THE SHORT SUIT values. Here you have enough to force to game even ignoring the short suit values, thus it is too strong.

I tend to subscribe to the view that in many circumstances it is reasonable to have split ranges of values that qualify for a particular treatment. An example might be to distinguish 1N-3M(slam try) from 1N-4R(tfr)-4M-??(slam try) and so on. But returning to this particular thread, if you have a splinter show a particular range OR a much much stronger hand, then you can generally cope well. Partner assumes the weakest interval possible, until you continue following a sign-out.

 

Not that I voted not for a splinter on this hand - I went for a direct 6H. If they have two cashing Club tricks they are less likely to find it on this auction, following which at least one of them has good chances of disappearing.

[jdeegan]

:) All you need in partner's hand for a virtual laydown seven heart bid is the ace of clubs and the king of diamonds. You want to develop an auction that leads to cue bidding controls as opposed to wholesale asking bids (i.e. Blackwood). Playing 2/1 a 2♦ response makes sense. Playing SAYC, a 3♦ strong jump shift is a good start. A game forcing heart raise like a Jacoby 2NT should also work well.

 

1♥-P-2NT(Jacoby 2NT)-P

3♦(singleton)-P-3♠(cue bid)-P

4♣(club ace)-P-4♦(diamond ace)-P

4♥-P-4♠(first and second round spade controls)

 

At this point partner will be momentarily confused, until he works out your spade void. He will be concerned about trump honors, but you will keep pushing. Six is certain, and seven is still possible if partner has the diamond king or six hearts.

[Fluffy]

2♦ seems clear, you can bid 4♠ next round.