Laws Question

[pclayton]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s976ha6da75ckqt72&w=sa432hq9dk964c965&e=sq85h7543dqt2ca84&s=skjthkjt82dj83cj3]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

This hand is purely hypothetical, but I bring it up to ask a rules question.

 

Its a pair event and South plays in 2♥. E/W are silent in the bidding.

 

West (unfortunately) leads the ♣5, 2, A, 3.

 

East goes into a 2 minute tank, and worried about dummy's clubs, shifts to the spade Queen, King, Ace, 6.

 

West is now in possession of UI and chooses to shift to a diamond. Declarer is able to pitch one diamond on the long club, but hooks the heart into West who cashes the ♦. Making 3.

 

A spade back at T3 likely results in 170 for N/S.

 

My question is - as declarer, when is the proper time to call the director?

 

1. As soon as the ♠Q hits the table after the tank?

2. As soon as West finds the ♦ shift?

3. After the hand is over?

 

I have my opinion, but I wanted to ask the rules mavens here. Thanks in advance.

[helene_t]

After the hand is over. There's nothing the director can do before that time.

 

But I think you should use the TD card to indicate that you reserve your rights.

[hrothgar]

After the hand is over. There's nothing the director can do before that time.

 

But I think you should use the TD card to indicate that you reserve your rights.

As far as I recall, most regulatory regimes don't have any official policy about "reserving rights". While this may be common practice, it isn't backed by law.

 

I believe that the correct proceedure is to call the director at the time of the infraction (the long tank).

[hotShot]

It is not a violation of the laws to produce UI, just to use it.

 

So i would like to know, what information you think east gave, that is unauthorized to west? And how did west use it?

 

After that lets discuss, what are the LA's that west has for his lead, and which of these is suggested or more suggested by the UI.

[hotShot]

I believe that the correct proceedure is to call the director at the time of the infraction (the long tank).

The long tank is no infraction! It is legal to think and even legal to produce UI, west action is possibly an infraction.

[inquiry]

How fast did "south" play to trick one. If south played to trick one at lightening speed. East should tank BEFORE taking the club ACE. After deciding what to play to trick two, he should win the club ace and lead the queen at routine speed.

 

The ACBL does not approve of "reserve the right", whcih by the way is in the international laws but allows the SO to decide if that is ok. I think the right answer is when WEST finds the diamond shift, but this is a foggy area I think.

[pclayton]

How fast did "south" play to trick one. If south played to trick one at lightening speed. East should tank BEFORE taking the club ACE. After deciding what to play to trick two, he should win the club ace and lead the queen at routine speed.

 

The ACBL does not approve of "reserve the right", whcih by the way is in the international laws but allows the SO to decide if that is ok. I think the right answer is when WEST finds the diamond shift, but this is a foggy area I think.

For discussion sake, lets say South took a good 15-20 seconds before calling for a card.

[pclayton]

I believe that the correct proceedure is to call the director at the time of the infraction (the long tank).

The long tank is no infraction! It is legal to think and even legal to produce UI, west action is possibly an infraction.

Sure, but acting on the UI is an infraction. Imagine how quickly you'd fire back a spade if the ♣A and ♠Q were played simultaneously.

[david_c]

In my opinion -

 

As soon as West finds the diamond switch, declarer should ask if the opps agree that there was a hesitation. If they agree, then (unless your SO has decided not to allow "reserving your rights") there is no need to call the director until the hand is over. If they do not agree then you must call the director immediately.

[hotShot]

Sure, but acting on the UI is an infraction. Imagine how quickly you'd fire back a spade if the ♣A and ♠Q were played simultaneously.

Seems we agree on the time of the potential infraction.

 

So after the winning the the ♠A west has the choice to play ♠ and ♦.

 

West has the following AI's:

East can see both red aces on the table, so playing a red suit might help declarer.

South covered ♠Q with the K, while south and east share 6♠'s. Does north cover make sense holding Kxx? Can east be single?

[skjaeran]

In my opinion -

 

As soon as West finds the diamond switch, declarer should ask if the opps agree that there was a hesitation. If they agree, then (unless your SO has decided not to allow "reserving your rights") there is no need to call the director until the hand is over. If they do not agree then you must call the director immediately.

David is right in most non-ACBL territory.

 

This is exactly how I would act, sitting south.

Of course, sitting west I would fire a spade back after winning the ace. When you have UI you should strive to chose a logical alternative NOT demonstrably suggested by the UI. If there's no LA to the action you want to take, there's no restrictions on you. This case is cear cut - no competent TD would allow the diamond shift, and no ethical player would shift to a diamond after partners tank.