What is this double?

[twcho]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=sj963hqtdk842c972]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Wes Nor Eas Sou

　　　　　　　　　P

P　　2H*　3NT　P

P　　X　　　P　　?　　　[/hv]

2H is 5+H and weak to intermediate in strength. How do you interpret your pd's X? What will you do? If pass, what will you lead?

[kenberg]

If this means anything other than "Please lead a heart even if you have to borrow one from the next table" partner should have told me before.

[helene_t]

I don't think it asks for a specific lead. Just lead a heart. Partner has a hand too strong for a first/second seat preempt and thinks he can beat 3NT with a little help from you.

[inquiry]

This is very odd. Doubles of 3NT usually carry a conventional meaning. The meaning being either we will beat this no matter what you lead, or more likely, we have a chance to beat it if you find the right lead. The "right lead" meaning is often conventional. For example, if partner double their 3NT and we have both bid a different suit, the double ask me to lead the suit I bid.

 

Here I have never bid.

 

If we have not both bid a suit, the next usual meaning is if partner has bid a suit, to lead his. Here he bid ♥ so the double ask me to lead a heart. If partner had not bid a suit, then the double usually ask for dummies suit (dummy did not bid one), then declarer's suit (an unusual lead, useful if they play short minors), finally leader picks between his majors and leads the weaker one hoping to hit partners suit.

 

Here, conventionally the double ask for a heart lead to set this contract, but partner could not count on me holding the ♥QT and if those cards were with declarer plus his one sure heart stopper, a ♥ lead would never work. And partner can't know I hold these cards. In otherwords, partner could not be making a lead directing double that requires a heart lead to set the contract. This creates quite a problem for me. Partner must be expecting to beat 3NT even with a heart lead, but his 2♥ bid denies sufficient power to do so in his hand alone.

 

Since partner demanded a heart lead, and since I have no idea what other suit would be best to lead, a heart lead seems right (the queen). However, I have a sneaky idea that a low diamond is best. It would be curious to see how many play this double (after obtensively a weak two) to mean the opposite of the normal meaning of lead a heart, and ask for an unusual lead. The advantage of a diamond lead is if it is wrong, you may get a chance to switch later to a club. but if a club lead is wrong, they may run 6 to 7 clubs tricks plus a few major winners before you get in again.

[paulg]

I'd lead the ♣9.

 

Generally I would lead a heart on this auction without the double. The only suit where partner can have half a chance of beating 3NT is clubs, so I expect him to have

 

♠ x

♥ 109xxxx

♦ x

♣ AKQxx

 

Paul

[MFA]

P clearly wants a non-H lead.

 

It's a spade or a club. I'll try a spade. P might have bluffed 2♥ with ♠AKQxxx out hoping for this kind of scenario.

[whereagles]

There are dozens of interpretations for pard's double, so this problem is partner and opponent-dependant. No answers can be given without knowing:

 

1. Is pard disciplined or is he always "trying" for something?

2. Did RHO show some sort of discomfort upon bidding 3NT or after pard's dbl?

 

etc..

[twcho]

3rd hand preempt esp. such vul is wide range but I have never seen my partner psychic.

 

This was online game, the timing for all the bid was quite normal.

[mikeh]

I intreprete partner's double as asking for a new partner: and if the opps make the contract, he will get his wish.

 

It should ask for a ♥ lead, but our ♥ holding tells us otherwise. The problem is that he cannot know that our ♥ holding tells us he is asking for another suit. If we held xx♥, this lead-a-♥ would be clear. And it is next to impossible for him to expect that our side suits will steer us to the correct lead when we lack ♥ values.

 

There is some logic to the ♣ lead, in that ♣s is our weakest suit and our shortest non-♥ suit, but it may also be opener's source of tricks.

 

I am going to lead a ♣. But even if it's right, I'm leaving the table: most of the time, his double is simply costing us a lot of imps/mps.

[pbleighton]

I don't know, but I suspect it's lead a heart.

 

Without a firm agreement, this is a stupid bid.

 

Petre

[paulg]

P clearly wants a non-H lead.

 

It's a spade or a club. I'll try a spade. P might have bluffed 2♥ with ♠AKQxxx out hoping for this kind of scenario.

Partner is too good for me if he can recognise that the opposition are going to bid 3NT when he has six good spades and almost average points in third seat :P

[cherdano]

Hmm, I think it is quite common that the double asks for a non-heart lead.

[twcho]

May I elaborate something on the 2H bid:

It can be as bad as 5 pts with 5H and as good as 14 bad pt, 6H

[Finch]

I intreprete partner's double as asking for a new partner: and if the opps make the contract, he will get his wish.

 

It should ask for a ♥ lead, but our ♥ holding tells us otherwise. The problem is that he cannot know that our ♥ holding tells us he is asking for another suit. If we held xx♥, this lead-a-♥ would be clear. And it is next to impossible for him to expect that our side suits will steer us to the correct lead when we lack ♥ values.

What he said

[Guest Jlall]

Nice we got some who say it asks for a heart lead, some who say it asks for a non heart lead. Glad we got some clarity.

[han]

In general I play this kind of double as asking for a non-heart lead. I agree with Mike's interpretation though, this double shouldn't exist.

[Apollo81]

Looking at the auction, I'd say double asks for a heart lead.

 

Looking at my hand, I'd say partner intended this as "don't lead a heart."

[Walddk]

I have never been in this situation and I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen. I don't know what the double asks for or forbids, but I do know that the double is crazy.

 

Why is it that my feeling tells me it doesn't matter what I lead? Either the contract is down regardless or it's a make even if I find a ¤"¤ among my 13 cards. That double simply doesn't exist, at least not for me.

 

Next board ... with a new partner, preferably one who plays bridge and refrains from inventing ridiculous doubles. I'm in MikeH's camp.

 

Roland

[whereagles]

I didn't realize it was in 3rd seat. Well, regardless of one liking it or not, I think pard has a max and is just saying that he hasn't got squat. I'll stick to the dbl and lead a heart.

[twcho]

Seems that all posters can't quite understand the double (same as me).

 

I was the south player and when my regular pd, doubled the 3NTX, it didn't strike me as very special or asking for special lead. He was just telling me he has good hand, in the context of the 2H bid. And combined with the fact that I have 6 pts, I did not pause to think of other possibility of other than passing the double.

 

Naturally, I led HQ and the actual hand was:[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sqt7haj9872da97cq&w=sk852h63dqj63c843&e=sa4hk54dt5cakjt65&s=sj963hqtdk842c972]399|300|Scoring: imp[/hv]

 

It can be easily seen that the 3nt is cold on any lead. But the point my partner raised to me is very interesting. He said that, in view of the bidding and my holding, I should be able to conclude that we shd have HCP near to half of the pack but still the opp bid 3NT and sit it confidently after the double with adverse vulnerability. The highly probable explanation is that he hold a running suit of his own, most probably a minor. He told me further that I should be able to deduce that it is likely that the 3NT bidder holds C suit and it is very easy for him to get 9 tricks as he is sure to hold guide in H.

 

He told me that my best action should be taking out the double and bid 4H intends to sacrifice and the truth is, 4HX at worst -2 and a substantial gain vs 3nt making.

 

Is his reasoning strong enough? I have never thought at the table of taking out his double. And seems that I am not alone.

 

Edit: Vul changed back to EW instead of NS

[the hog]

I can't understand the H leaders. I would be expected to lead a H without the double. If the 2H bidder KNOWS that a H lead will beat the contract, he just has to pass and beat it undoubled. The double therefore specifically asks for a NON heart lead. Pd has a very good side suit and is asking you to find it. He also has an entry. I would lead a C.

 

Whoah! I just saw the hand. Your partner is an idiot and his "reasoning" is non existent. Take Mikeh's advice and leave immediately. This guy should be banned for abuse to bridge!

 

Incidentally saying a X of this type, (and I don't mean this particular X here!), doesn't exist or is ridiculous is a foolish comment. How many players posting here have pre empted and then doubled a contract for the lead because they hold a void? The situation is analogous. You expect pd to lead your suit. The X cancels that expectation and asks pd to use his brains and find something else. I would have expected a side suit of KQJT at least one outside Ace and maybe another card, and given the definition of the opening bid, this falls within that ambit. Perhaps he even operated with a 5/5 and a fine second suit. (3rd seat opening).

[Walddk]

You must have got the vulnerability wrong, or if you didn't your partner's reasoning is even more bizarre. He invented a non-existent double without telling you and on top of that he suggested that the double was for take-out!

 

East's 3NT was somewhat ambitious but he struck gold. He can't have been happy when he saw the double. The fact is that your partner's hand was too good. Give him a small club instead of the queen (you have Qxx now) and 3NT goes for a phone number on a heart lead.

 

You take the double out and your partner will tell you that you're a fool. This is all sheer nonsense in my view.

 

Roland

 

P.S.: I now see that you changed the vulnerability (you had NS vul first). It doesn't change my view though. The double is ridiculous and the explanation afterwards makes absolutely no sense.

[Codo]

Two questions to all "double asks for a heart lead" posters.

 

1. If double asks for a Heart lead, what do pass ask for?

 

2. How do you show pd that he should find an unusual lead?

 

Maybe I get answers to make up my mind. As long as I don`t have them, I stick with the Hog and try to lead something unusual. I had tried a Diamond.

 

Of course pds explanaition of his double and his reasoning was something very humourus and nothing to lost many thoughts about. There are one million hands where you could not see that 3 NT is icecold and 4 Heart a nice save and he just gave you the choice between 3 NT Xx + 2 and 4 H X -4. It had worked in this very special case. And even here it did not, because your bridge logic -and the logic of all of us- was different from his thinking.

[Gerben42]

To quote Bill Jacobs:

My partners have AKQxx in a side suit exactly twice when they open a weak two. The first time and the last time, on the same hand.

 

Dbl = I don't think they have a ♥ stopper

Pass = I have no reason to Dbl

 

However it specifically said that 2♥ can be intermediate, so AKQxx in a side suit is possible apparently... I lead a non-♥ in this case.

 

The Dbl on the actual hand was misguided. Either 3NT makes on a ♥ lead or it does not. If it doesn't, why try to misdirect partner with a Dbl?

[helene_t]

I agree with partner's reasoning but he shouldn't blame you for not sacrificing. You have approximately the hand he gambled on when he doubled 3NT for penalties. With optimal defense, 4♥ goes for 500 which is not surprising and not worth as a possible phantom sacrifice. Who says dummy has ♠K?