whereagles Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Richard: it's interesting that one can make an argument for treating a 1NT opener of 10-12 as a strong one! I would expect one would need to "change gear" at the 13-15 range, but seems like one doesn't have to change gear at all. Are all NTs strong after all? hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Richard: Playing Lionel against a weak NT: What do you do with 16+ flat, 4441, or single-suited minor hands? On Gerben's page he describes X as either spades and another or a very strong hand. Are the other bids capped? What do you do after X with some clubs? How strong do you have to be to X, and how strong to leave an X in with a misfit? Peter Hi, - 16+ flat, you pass- 4441, 2C shows clubs and hearts, 2D shows diamonds and hearts, you either bid your strongest minor or clubs- single suiter in a minor, pass or bid 3 of the minor- X shows either 4-4 with spades, or a 16+ with spades Answers of the double- 2C is pass or correct- 2D shows ones own suit, and denys interest in clubs, 2H similar- 2NT shows a bal. invite with +3 cards in spades- 3C. 3D,3H are splinter- 3S is preemptive- 3NT is a bal. hand with spade support - strength of the double +11HCP, please keep vulberability in mind, if it comes to strength and honor placement. Dont blame the convention if you go -1100 if you bid X with a 4432 shape- you can pass the double with +10/11 (knowing, that you have at least the bal. of power), this has nothing to do with fit / misfit With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Richard: Playing Lionel against a weak NT: What do you do with 16+ flat, 4441, or single-suited minor hands? On Gerben's page he describes X as either spades and another or a very strong hand. Are the other bids capped? What do you do after X with some clubs? How strong do you have to be to X, and how strong to leave an X in with a misfit? Peter Playing Lionel, 4/4 hand patterns are described as a two suiter. So a 4=2=3=4 hand would start with a double, showing Spades and another suit while a 2=4=4=3 hand would bid 2♦ showing Diamonds and Hearts. Single suited minors bid at the three level or pass. 44441s can describe themselves as two suited (or pass). The version that I play (which I beleive is the standard version) doesn't devote any bids to show a strong hand. Lionel emphasizes describing shape at the expense of precisely describing range. If partner doubles and you hold clubs you'll typically bid 2♣ (pass or correct) and hope that partner passes. Versus a strong NT, the double normally shows 12+ HCP. I've never really seen a rigid description for the strength required to pass in the advancing seat. Its more a judgement call regarding whether one thinks that its better to scramble or try to convert for penalties and will be VERY dependent on what RHO's pass meant. What I can tell you is the following: If North opens a 15 - 17 HCP and East doubles showing 12+ HCP, E/W will hold the balance of power ~ 43.4% of the time. However, if we assign West 3+ HCPs, this figure increases to 48.6%. If we assign West 4+ HCP the figure increases to 53.9%. If West holds an eight count you're guarunteed at least half the deck. If North opens a 12 -14 HCP NT and East doubles, showing 12+ HCP, then North South already rate to be the weaker of the two pairs. East / West will have the bulk of the strength 64% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Richard: it's interesting that one can make an argument for treating a 1NT opener of 10-12 as a strong one! I would expect one would need to "change gear" at the 13-15 range, but seems like one doesn't have to change gear at all. Are all NTs strong after all? hum... I'm not sure whether the data supports this: First of all, I was just looking at High Card Points. As we all know, shape also plays a factor in these types of decisions. (They are plenty of hands that can make game in either direction. The naive analysis that I did doesn't take these issues into account) Furthermore, there is a very significant different between 12 - 14 HCP 1NT opening and a 15 -17 HCP NT opening. The chance that WE have game doesn't change significantly. The chance that they can make game increases enormously. I'd argue that over a weak NT, our priority is winning the part score battle. 1. Find our major suit contracts2. Avoid -3003. Hit them when its right Over the strong NT, our priorites change 1. Grab bidding space and prevent them from accuarte game exploration2. Avoid large penalties3. Hit them when its right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 yeah, that seems to be more or less it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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