Fourth seat opening

[firmit]

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=sj10975h93dkj84caq]133|100|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

(p)-p-(p)-1♠ was not too hard for me to bid. Even for me! But the rest is kind of interesting.

Partner returns:

(p)-2♣*-(p)-2♠

I alert, and explain to opps that we play Reversed Toronto / Drury, so 2♣ is showing 3 card spade and around 10-11 fit points.

 

My partner disagrees - she says Toronto/Drury only applies in 3rd seat, given that the 4th seat could be strong... (as in the 3rd seat cannot?).

 

Her hand: A2 QJ2 AT73 9842.

 

1. When Toronto is agreed, does it not also aply in 3rd and 4th seat?

2. What would be the correct respons for her hand?

[hrothgar]

I'd bid 1NT

[Guest Jlall]

Drury is typically played in 4th as well as 3rd.

 

Your partner has a 1N bid.

[inquiry]

If you play drury, it is typically played in third AND FOURTH seat.

 

I have a secret, I play it in all seats (after 1st/2nd seat, 2C is either GF or drury). THIS IS CLEARLY NO WHERE NEAR STANDARD, and is not GCC legal. Obviously, after a first/2nd seat, partner has an opening hand, so i use this bid to separate constructive and limit raises from weak raises. I raise directly with weak hands but support.

[zasanya]

I'd bid 1NT

Doesnt a NT response to 1 Major show 6-10 point range?Would we miss a game?

[Edmunte1]

-Drury works fine in 3rd and 4th seat too. It's ok to open light (10+) in 4th seat knowing that points are pretty equally divided between lines.

- 1nt is OK, playing it as semiforcing. If partner passes with a minimum balanced hand, you won't make game

- Another ideea is to play 2♦ as a good passed hand, and denying fit and 1nt as a weak bid

[Winstonm]

I have a secret, I play it in all seats (after 1st/2nd seat, 2C is either GF or drury). THIS IS CLEARLY NO WHERE NEAR STANDARD, and is not GCC legal. Obviously, after a first/2nd seat, partner has an opening hand, so i use this bid to separate constructive and limit raises from weak raises. I raise directly with weak hands but support.

I think this is a tremendous match-point application, as it allows really bad openings to stop at the 2-level. Sounds a lot like what Barry used to play.

[helene_t]

If you play 2/1 GF, a natural 2/1 by a passed hand doesn't exist so there's no reason not to play Drury.

 

It may be true that a 4th-seat opener has a higher lower bound than a 3rd-seat opener, but especially with spades (the rule of 15 says you should open with 10 HCPs with a 5-card spades in 4th seat) you could still have too little to commit to the 3-level opposit a flat 11-count with 3-card support.

 

Also, since a 1NT response by a passed hand is not forcing, it's not so attractive to respond 1NT with 3-card support. So you have to define the simple raise as 5-8 or some such, and then you need Drury for the stronger hands.

[mike777]

If you play 2/1 GF, a natural 2/1 by a passed hand doesn't exist so there's no reason not to play Drury.

 

It may be true that a 4th-seat opener has a higher lower bound than a 3rd-seat opener, but especially with spades (the rule of 15 says you should open with 10 HCPs with a 5-card spades in 4th seat) you could still have too little to commit to the 3-level opposit a flat 11-count with 3-card support.

 

Also, since a 1NT response by a passed hand is not forcing, it's not so attractive to respond 1NT with 3-card support. So you have to define the simple raise as 5-8 or some such, and then you need Drury for the stronger hands.

Why can you not have a natural 2/1 by a passed hand?

[inquiry]

I have a secret, I play it in all seats (after 1st/2nd seat, 2C is either GF or drury). THIS IS CLEARLY NO WHERE NEAR STANDARD, and is not GCC legal. Obviously, after a first/2nd seat, partner has an opening hand, so i use this bid to separate constructive and limit raises from weak raises. I raise directly with weak hands but support.

I think this is a tremendous match-point application, as it allows really bad openings to stop at the 2-level. Sounds a lot like what Barry used to play.

In fact, Barry Crane did use 2♣ for this purpose.