Which slam?

[Guest Jlall]

[hv=n=sakxxhxdakqxxcakx&s=sqtxhaxxxxdxcq9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

 

I'll give you a free run with whatever system you like to play and the weak hand as dealer. How would you bid these hands and what would the final contract be?

[inquiry]

This is an ugly hand for my system... dang you justin.

 

South has an easy pass. North will have to open 2♣ planning on rebidding 3♦ which is 1) unbalanced, 2) absolute 100% GF, 3) shows 10 tricks or more or a hand just too darn strong to risk 1♦ and hence still GF.

 

Pass - 2♣

2♦   - 3♦

3♥   - 3NT

4NT  - 5♠

5NT   - 6♦

6♠   - Pass

 

 

2♦ is semipositive promising at least "one trick"

3♦ as noted above is 100% GF, showing long diamonds, any second suit is limited to four cards. Will not be 4450, 4054 or 0454.

3♥ natural

3NT natural, black suit stoppers.

4NT natural (partner has ten tricks, I have two black queens, and the heart Ace, I can not reasonably pass

5♠ second suit, must be at least 4-x-5-y, can be 4-x-6-y as well

-----------

Maybe just bid 6♠, but 5NT is pick a slam, north picks 6♦ and south runs to 6♠ giving option between 6♠ and 6NT. North without running diamonds, passes 6♠. If this is too esoteric, south could just bid 6♠ over 5♠ I guess.

 

I am not 100% sure the bidding would go this way, but NORTH is just too good for 1♦, south clearly has 2♦ and 3♥ bids and north 3NT is clearly right. I can't imagine passing 3NT on this auction with 2 and possibly three tricks (partner could be, for instance 3-1-6-3 with 10 tricks). It is just that north is minimum for the auction and might pass 4NT, and choosing to play in 4-3 spade fit is a little bit double dummy, but not that much.

[kenrexford]

I have no good idea what the final contract will be, to be honest. However, using what I would want, the auction would be as follows, assuming no interference:

 

Pass (not enough to open for me)

1♦ (4+ diamonds, unbalanced -- usually stiff or void somewhere; better tactically than 2♣-P-2♦(GF waiting)-P-???)

1♥ (natural, 4+, makes North happy not pass)

2♠ (strong JS, stiff in a red suit confirmed)

3♣ (feature possible, but GF -- 2NT would be artificial weak. Not extra hearts, no spade fit, no good diamond fit)

3♦ (weird, but stiff in hearts probably; would bid 3♥ with fragment, but could be 4216-ish)

3♠ (three-card spade support, not diamond support -- would bid 3♥)

 

Now it gets tricky. If Opener decides to be aggressive, he starts:

 

3NT (serious)

4♥ (no club control, no diamond honor, heart Ace -- would not show King or stiff opposite a known stiff, but technically could be a void)

 

And then he must keep going, asking RKCB and hoping that partner has decent hearts.

 

More likely, backing up, I would not be so aggressive, despite the 23-count. After 3♠, I'd probably bid 4♣ with the North hand. If South now bids 4♥, still the Ace (or possibly void in theory), I'll expect him to have something better than otherwise, because my 4♣ call was not serious.

 

South, to move over 4♣ by bidding 4♥, would ideally have ♠QJx ♥Axxxx ♦x ♣QJxx, at least from North's perspective. I'm not sure if that is enough to punt back with a 4♥ call.

 

My guess is a lot of headaches from both sides, and a final contract of 4♠. On wild days, I'll be in 6♠ and praying for some luck.

[mike777]

OHH, well to make it more difficult I thought west opened 1H, maybe that was at the other table. I thought if west opens 1H this is an interesting hand. :P

[pclayton]

I can see with my favorite pard:

 

2♣ - 2♦

3♠ - 4N

5♣ - 5♠

5N - 6♠

 

--3♠ shows 4♠ and 5+ ♦'s and is GF

--4N is quantitative

--5♣ patterns out (a pass is possible, but AK/AKQ/AK isn't a minimum)

--5♠ is belated support

--5N is a punt. With a 4=0=5=4, 6♣ would be indicated.

--6♠ is a guess; but 6♣ is possible too.

 

I'll try it with him later to see if this is how it really goes.

[jtfanclub]

[hv=n=sakxxhxdakqxxcakx&s=sqtxhaxxxxdxcq9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

 

I'll give you a free run with whatever system you like to play and the weak hand as dealer. How would you bid these hands and what would the final contract be?

Hmmm....generic Precision....

 

P 1♣

1♥ 1♠

2♠ 3♦

3NT 4NT

5♣ 6♠

 

But I'm probably peeking too much.

[Apollo81]

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: IMP

♠ AKxx ♥ x ♦ AKQxx ♣ AKx ♠ QTx ♥ Axxxx ♦ x ♣ Q9xx

 

 

I'll give you a free run with whatever system you like to play and the weak hand as dealer. How would you bid these hands and what would the final contract be?

2/1:

 

2♣-2♦*

3♦-3♥

3♠-4NT

5♦**-6♠

 

*waiting

**1/4

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Apollo81]

I think the hand is actually harder to bid in Precision:

 

1♣-1♥

1♠-2♠

3♦-3♠

4NT-5♦*

5♥-5♠**

6♠-pass

 

*1/4

**no ♠Q

 

The 5♠ bid is the tough one here...but I think it is justified by the fact that the fit is one fewer card than expected and the hand is generally a misfit.

[Apollo81]

TOSR

 

1♣(1)-1NT(2)

2♣(3)-2♦(4)

2♥(5)-3♦(6)

3♠(7)-3NT(8)

6♠

 

1 strong artificial

2 4+♥, GF, 2+ controls

3 general ask

4 4+♣

5 general ask

6 3514

7 asking about spades

8 Qxx or better, minimum HCP

[inquiry]

2♣-2♦*

3♦-3♥

3♠-4NT

5♦**-6♠

 

*waiting

**1/4

I don't like 3♠ over 3♥. because with you holding the ♣AK if partner doesn't have the club Queen to legnth, you probalby just missed you best spot of 3NT. I think over 3♥ with these clbus/spades you really hve to rebid notrump.

[Apollo81]

2♣-2♦*

3♦-3♥

3♠-4NT

5♦**-6♠

 

*waiting

**1/4

I don't like 3♠ over 3♥. because with you holding the ♣AK if partner doesn't have the club Queen to legnth, you probalby just missed you best spot of 3NT. I think over 3♥ with these clbus/spades you really hve to rebid notrump.

 

just suggesting a way to get there

 

3NT is probably the better bid

[EricK]

I will use officeglen's system from the other thread.

 

(P) 3NT

All Pass

[inquiry]

I can see with my favorite pard:

 

2♣ - 2♦

3♠ - 4N

5♣ - 5♠

5N - 6♠

 

--3♠ shows 4♠ and 5+ ♦'s and is GF

--4N is quantitative

--5♣ patterns out (a pass is possible, but AK/AKQ/AK isn't a minimum)

--5♠ is belated support

--5N is a punt. With a 4=0=5=4, 6♣ would be indicated.

--6♠ is a guess; but 6♣ is possible too.

 

I'll try it with him later to see if this is how it really goes.

I am beginning to think I like this method of 3♥ and 3♠ being 4-Long in bid major and diamonds. I think I read somewhere in the forum that 2C-2D-3C allows a 3D relay to ask for 4 card major and responders 3H/3S over 3D is natural and 5+.

 

Is there a write up on the other aspects of this system on the web somewhere?

[whereagles]

1♣ 1♥

2♦ 2♥

3♦ 3♥

3♠ 3NT

pass

 

1♣ = nat or any strong hand

2♦ = art, game-forcing

2♥ = art, 5-8 hcp no slam interest

pass = (5-8)+23+misfit = 28-31, not enough for a slam try

[mike777]

 

I'll give you a free run with whatever system you like to play and the weak hand as dealer. How would you bid these hands and what would the final contract be?

2/1:

 

2♣-2♦*

3♦-3♥

3♠-4NT

5♦**-6♠

 

*waiting

**1/4

Seems a bit double dummy to me.

 

As I said I think west opened 1H at other table, really making it tough.

[jchiu]

Playing my favorite system

 

Pass - 1♣

1♥ - 1♠

2♣ - 2♦

3♦ - 3♠

3NT - 4♣

4NT - 6♠

Pass

 

1♣ = 16+ HCP any shape

1♥ = 8+ HCP, 2+ control points, 4+♥, may be canape

1♠ = Relay (same with 2♦)

2♣ = 4+♣, unbalanced hand

3♦ = Exactly 3=5=1=4 distribution

3NT = Two control points, now shows that ♥A is the control

4♣ = Denial cuebidding ask

4NT = Something in ♥, ♣, ♠, no second ♥ card

6♠ = Knows the hand as Qxx Axxxx x Qxxx

[Echognome]

TOSR

 

1♣(1)-1NT(2)

2♣(3)-2♦(4)

2♥(5)-3♦(6)

3♠(7)-3NT(8)

6♠

 

1 strong artificial

2 4+♥, GF, 2+ controls

3 general ask

4 4+♣

5 general ask

6 3514

7 asking about spades

8 Qxx or better, minimum HCP

Don't you want to ask about clubs? You can ruff 2♦ with the short trump hand, but you don't want to have to ruff a club as well.

 

Can't responder be:

 

Qxx AQxxx x xxxx or

Qxx AJxxx x Jxxx

[awm]

Sam and I actually bid to 6♠. Since we play relay methods I gave him the hand that would make all important decisions (I had seen both hands, he had not). Our auction:

 

Pass - 1♣(1)

1NT(2) - 2♣(3)

2♥(4) - 2NT(5)

3♥(6) - 3♠(7)

4♠(8) - 6♠(9)

 

(1) 16+ artificial

(2) 5+♥, 5+ hcp, and 2-6 AKQ points

(3) GF Relay

(4) 4♣

(5) Relay, singleton or void in hearts

(6) 3-5-1-4 exactly

(7) Ask values excluding ♥K and ♥Q

(8) 5 AKQ points, which must be ♥A+♠Q+♣Q

(9) To play; could try to find out more but we open most 9-counts with this shape so multiple useful jacks (yielding play for a grand) are very unlikely.

[Winstonm]

p-2c

2d-2s* *1-suiter

3d*-3n** *game force, short diamonds **screw it

[jdonn]

The double dummy - ness of most people answering (excluding relayers I guess) is astounding. Yes I'm sure 80% of bridge players will just barrel into slam with 31 high and no fit. Even some of the relay auctions give me doubts, as Echo's post shows. I would bid

 

2♣ 2♥ (shows about 7+ with no suit worth bidding)

3♦ 3♥

3♠ 3NT

4♣

 

for sure. Now responder is sort of on the cusp since his cards are useful but there is no fit at all and he has a minimum with a singleton diamond. He could bid either 4♠ which opener would pass, or 5NT to pick a slam, opener would bid 6♦ (I don't think he should suggest clubs again since he could have still had four), and responder would land it in 6♠. It's impossible to say fairly what would really happen since I already know the hands and I don't have tons of practice on auctions starting that way, but if I were to reach slam that would be how. Probably I wouldn't.

[Codo]

[hv=n=sakxxhxdakqxxcakx&s=sqtxhaxxxxdxcq9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

I would bid it the following way:

 

2 ♣ 2 ♦

3 ♠ 3 NT

all pass

 

(2 Club /3 Spade shows a semiforcing with long diamonds and 4 Spades, yes it should be 6+/4 but is the smallest lie)

(2 Diamond was a game forcing relay 3 NT to play opposite a semiforcing and a clear misfit.)

 

Good luck to all bidders who reached 6 Spade in a 4-3 fit without knowing that pd has the magical points: Queen of Spade, ace of Heart and queen of clubs. I believe that they will reach many bad slams if they bid at the table the same way they do in the forum.

 

And my respect to the few bidders who relayed out all working cards in souths hand. I hope I won´t meet you at the table.

[Guest Jlall]

our auction in real life:

 

pass 1C(strong)

1H(GF) 2D

2N 3S

3N 5N(pick a slam)

6S pass

 

At the other table they found 6D. Diamonds were 6-3 but neither black suit worked so it was -1.

[Apollo81]

The double dummy - ness of most people answering (excluding relayers I guess) is astounding. Yes I'm sure 80% of bridge players will just barrel into slam with 31 high and no fit. Even some of the relay auctions give me doubts, as Echo's post shows. I would bid

 

2♣ 2♥ (shows about 7+ with no suit worth bidding)

3♦ 3♥

3♠ 3NT

4♣

 

for sure. Now responder is sort of on the cusp since his cards are useful but there is no fit at all and he has a minimum with a singleton diamond. He could bid either 4♠ which opener would pass, or 5NT to pick a slam, opener would bid 6♦ (I don't think he should suggest clubs again since he could have still had four), and responder would land it in 6♠. It's impossible to say fairly what would really happen since I already know the hands and I don't have tons of practice on auctions starting that way, but if I were to reach slam that would be how. Probably I wouldn't.

The 2♥ bid makes it a lot harder to find slam here since, at the point where opener bids 3♠, responder does not have much extra.

 

I think that if the auction were to begin 2♣-2♦-3♦-3♥-3♠, and 2♦ is waiting, then 3NT is a terrible bid.

 

I think 2♣-2♦-3♦ should show extra values if you are playing that a 0-count can respond 2♦.

[Fluffy]

I don't open 2♣ with 2 suiters so.....

 

ps-1♦

1♥-2♠

2NT*-3♣

3♥**-6NT***

 

2NT* relay, pattern out please

3♥** imposible fit, so it is asking again

 

 

6NT*** correct answer should be 4NT (or maybe 5?), but I wouldn't bid a non forcing bid below 6 with such hand.