You Be The Judge

[Guest Jlall]

[hv=n=sqtxxhj987xdjxckx&s=sxhktxdakqtxxcajt]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1D 1H

3C 3N

pass

 

[/hv]

 

How do you assess the blame for this result?

[MickyB]

I prefer a 3♦ rebid on the North hand.

[mikegill]

I'm going to assume that by "this result" you mean getting to 3NT instead of 4H. In that case, 100% North. I'm a big believer that you should take a cheap preference and let the jump-shifter finish describing his hand, except in extraordinary circumstances. North's hand is a clear 3D to me, in which case south bids 3H, and north raises to 4.

Now, to be fair to North, it really doesn't seem like 3NT is all that bad. Sure you don't have a 9th trick, but they have to lead something. It's really hard for them to lead spades without giving me a trick eventually, and 4H could go set on a 4-1 diamond break, among other things.

[inquiry]

I don't think this is a hand to be too critical. I would bid 3♦ with north, and south would pattern out with 3♥ to get to the major contract. But it is not 3NT doesn't have some reasonable chances. Sure you can lose 2♥ and a ton of spades on double dummy defense and a badly placed ♠JACK.

 

If I have to judge a guilty party for this hand, I guess south's bidding (in standard) can not be questioned, as it looks normal (if you allow prepared jumpshifts). So the blame, if there is any, is all on North. BtW, I like 1D-1H-3D to show great six card suit and 3 card support for the Major, and is how I would have bid this hand. I assume this bid was not available to this partnership.

[Finch]

I would rebid 3D on the South hand.

 

I think 3NT by North is clear, with poor hearts and what looks like a double spade stop.

 

If you bid 3D on the North hand you are effectively admitting that 3C is a conventional call, in which case you may as well agree some codified rebids.

[mikeh]

There is not a lot of blame to go around here: sure, we'd all prefer to be in 4♥ but 3N has a lot of chances.

 

The 3♣ bid is a stretch, altho no alternative appears attractive: 3♦ is as much an underbid (or more) than 3♣ is an overbid. And 3♦ is never going to lead to 4♥.

 

2♣ is the sexy alternative, and these hands are a good advertisement for Cole or equivalent gadgets. 2♣ (if ostensibly natural) would work well because it would engender a 2♦ preference followed by 3♥, and responder would get the picture of a near-jump-shift 1=3=5=4 or so and should bid 4♥ now.

 

However, it seems way over the top to suggest that 3♣ was a mistake compared to the nail-biting-while-awaiting-partner's-call experiment of 2♣.

 

So the 'fault' seems to lie primarily with North who could well have bid 3♦. Knowing, as we all do, that S held K10x in ♥, 3♦ seems clear.

 

So long as we are comfortable that S will bid a noise 3♠ on, for example, xx Ax AKQxx AQJx, then the 3♦ preference has to be correct, since we can still get to 3N when right while never missing the 5-3 ♥ fit. If we are concerned that partner would/should bid 3♥ with the example hand, then maybe we should be bidding 3N because we will never know to raise 3♥ to 4♥, and we'd rather limit our weak hand now.

 

So fault: 30% to north, 5% to south and 65% to the choice of system (wouldn't we love to be playing big club or a gadget such as Ben's... on this hand... I sure like a natural 2N rebid most of the time but not now)

 

Edit: when I blame system, I am not saying this is a bad method... I am saying that every method, no matter what it may be, has hand types it can't handle well and this is the classic hand type for natural methods... which of course is why this type is known as the Bridge World Nightmare hand

[cherdano]

I would bid 3♦ with north, and south would pattern out with 3♥ to get to the major contract.

At my table, partner bid 3♦, and that's where we played. I may have been pessimistic, but I think there are many 15-16 hcp hands for 3♦ where no game has play.

 

Over 3♣ I would also bid 3♦. I am not sure how this makes 3♣ and artificial bid. I also don't understand how QTxx is a a likely double stopper. I would say its a good stopper opposite xx but a bad one opposite x.

[Apollo81]

I would blame North 33%, the methods 33%, and bad luck 33%. North's hand is hardly a guarantee that they won't take 5 tricks in 3NT, so one could argue that he should bid 3♦. OTOH you can argue that 3NT is a heavy favorite to make and that North shouldn't get partner too excited with a 3♦ bid. Here North chose incorrectly for the actual deal.

 

I think South's hand is too good for 3♦.

[pclayton]

3N doesn't look that bad to me. You've telegraphed the spade lead which is probably your 9th trick, if they don't cash 5 1st. You might get a club lead.

 

I can see 4♥ is better because of the spots down to the 7.

 

Tough, but I really, really don't like 3♣. I'm fine with 3♦ (which gets us nowhere) or 2♣, which probably gets us to 4♥.

 

Should North rebid 3♠? I can't see why. 3N is where he lives, and wants to play opposite a strong jump shift in the minors. Should he take a false preference to 3♦? I can't see why. His spade tenace wants to declare 3N and its not clear the 5-3 is better anyway. Take away the ♥10 and I want to play 3N.

[Winstonm]

What was the result? If 3N making, the blame should go to opening leader or to the gods if the AK of spades were onside.

 

If 3N is down, I blame N 91.2543% for failure to bid 3D. The rest of the blame percentage goes to S. for expecting to be able to show 3-card heart support with this particular partner.

[whereagles]

I don't like 3♣, but even if opener had rebid 3♦, resp's 3NT rates to be the percentage auction anyway.

 

So.. blame goes: 100% bad luck :rolleyes:

[mike777]

I would try 2Clubs, if I can just get past this round. :rolleyes:

With KTx of hearts, a stiff spade and partner bidding one heart I will try 2 clubs on this one.

 

Very tough. 3 of a minor jump rebids are so random.

[the hog]

I dislike any C bid. One thing I dislike intensly is bidding suits that I don't have. I would bid 3D and there it would rest. So 100% to the 3C bidder. (This is a good advertisement for the 2NT gadget which shows 16-18, a good 6 card suit and 3 card support for partner).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would say, I prefer 3D, but if you want to force

to game, that's ok, it is a style issue.

 

In this case, you take the blame, but it could have

easily worked out well.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

(This is a good advertisement for the 2NT gadget which shows 16-18, a good 6 card suit and 3 card support for partner).

Or you could say it's a good advertisement for the 2S gadget which shows various hands, one of which is a 3-6 invite. (2S = 3-6 invite or balanced 18-19 with 4 hearts or club mini-splinter, 2NT asks)

[Fluffy]

or you could say to the 2N rebid as any GF blanced or 1 suiter :)

 

I don't care 3 clubs, I don't even care to play this contract, if south has bid with their given methids tehn north should try 3♦, but even then, who knows if 3♥ would be on 2 cards?

[whereagles]

Very tough. 3 of a minor jump rebids are so random.

They are random because US players insist in not giving in to ideas like

 

1. benjamin 2s

2. SEF 2♣/2♦ structure

3. opening 2♣ on hands of the strong 2 kind

 

:)

[Codo]

I would bid 3♦ with north, and south would pattern out with 3♥ to get to the major contract.

At my table, partner bid 3♦, and that's where we played. I may have been pessimistic, but I think there are many 15-16 hcp hands for 3♦ where no game has play.

 

Over 3♣ I would also bid 3♦. I am not sure how this makes 3♣ and artificial bid. I also don't understand how QTxx is a a likely double stopper. I would say its a good stopper opposite xx but a bad one opposite x.

Maybe you should stop jumping with 15-16 HCP hands? Then pd won´t pass your jump rebids any more with his decent 7 HCPs bagger.

 

I hat these 3 Club jump shifts without having a suit.

Bidding should be 1 ♦ 1 ♥ 3 ♦ 3 NT.

 

To loose 3 NT you need:

-a spade lead, or a heart lead

-The finesse for the jack of spade failing.

-Ace and king of spades in different hands.

-The ace of Heart behind the king- else West can never playing a third round of spades.

- some other layouts with AKJxx with East and AQ of Heart with West and a spade lead and Heart switch

 

This makes the contract a 4:1 favourite. I am quite happy to reach contracts like this. How much better is 4 Heart?

 

P.S. and of course QTxx is a good stop even opposite a singelton. Opps need to have an outside entry to the west hand and the finesse for the jack must fail to loose all spade tricks. This sounds like a good stop.

[Gerben42]

They are random because US players insist in not giving in to ideas like

 

1. benjamin 2s

2. SEF 2♣/2♦ structure

3. opening 2♣ on hands of the strong 2 kind

 

 

Or

 

4. Covering all 2NT rebids by opening 1♣ which can then (rarely) be 2 cards.

 

1♦ - 1♥

2NT* - 3♦

3♥ - 4♥

 

* Invitational 1-suiter, 0 - 2♥ or GF 1-suiter, 0 - 3♥.

 

or

 

1♦ - 1♥

3♦** - 4♥

 

** Invitational 1-suiter with 3♥.

[000002]

i can take easy to beat 4♥ if i seat in weat and hold ♥AQx---duck the first 1.

 

i would bid 3♦ if north changes ♠10 --♥10,or 3cards♦ +♣ Kx.

 

i take this 3nt is an acceptable bidding,i understood that north receive an message which was hinted 3♣ leap is a stanward 5-5 minors.

 

 

 

regards 000002

[Guest Jlall]

My teammates had this hand on BBO and bid it this way and got into a heated argument.

 

Personally I liked 3C (this hand is very good and very suitable for hearts), and didn't like 3N (I would just bid 3D). As others have mentioned 3N is still a good contract and was unlucky to go down.

[cherdano]

I would bid 3♦ with north, and south would pattern out with 3♥ to get to the major contract.

At my table, partner bid 3♦, and that's where we played. I may have been pessimistic, but I think there are many 15-16 hcp hands for 3♦ where no game has play.

 

Over 3♣ I would also bid 3♦. I am not sure how this makes 3♣ and artificial bid. I also don't understand how QTxx is a a likely double stopper. I would say its a good stopper opposite xx but a bad one opposite x.

Maybe you should stop jumping with 15-16 HCP hands? Then pd won´t pass your jump rebids any more with his decent 7 HCPs bagger.

I think it is fairly normal to jump to 3 with 15-16 hcp and a good suit (of course it can be stronger too).

Otherwise, 1♦-1x-2♦ has a range of 10-16 hcp.

[000002]

4♥ is a very bad contract.

 

when west has a key card ♥--q,no way to make if E-W defense corecetly,unless a good luck.

 

for example,weat take ♥ q,back a small ♠,east proceed ♠x,now,can not make 4♥ .

 

 

 

regards 000002

[Guest Jlall]

At the other table where they did jump to 3D, the player passed, which I thought was normal (but probably not normal to people who view this as a routine 3D bid and have a higher upper limit).